[HSF] Cardiac Surgery Textbook

Wed Aug 8 13:56:52 EDT 2007

Bill, 
Maybe you have some insight as to the validity of my critique of Kirkland (the book and the man). It is writtenas the experience of UAB and (New Zealand) as a normative experience and thereby an expectation for "normative" surgeons. Yet much of the data, particularly the pediatric parts, is largely not his own data and at least by secondary inference would be a different book if it were. In short it is not the normative book that he reputes it to be.

tea

----- Original Message ----
From: ICHFNO <ichfno at aol.com>
To: OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 8, 2007 12:26:37 PM
Subject: Re: [HSF] Cardiac Surgery Textbook

Ani;

Thanks for the response and recognition that the book is what it is, rather than " one of the most poorly written books ever." There was no summation on my part, only my prediction of what JW would have said, having been on the receiving end of that statement several times, as a medical student on his service and then years later as a cardiac resident and congenital fellow at UAB.

WNovick

In a message dated 08/08/07 12:11:30 Central Daylight Time, anianyanwu at hotmail.com writes:
I supposed you have summed me up Dr Novick - all down to my ignorance and lack of understanding which I will happily accept! I would not be ashamed to admit that I cannot comprehend the writings or follow the thinking of one of our great pioneers. 

That Kirklin is the premier text of our speciality and the most definitive source few will argue with (as I said it is the best reference book). Some sections of the book are essential reading for a cardiac surgeon. The section on Generating knowledge and data and analysis is second to none and is the guiding block for the scientific rigor which Kirklin, Naftel and Blackstone have been promoting in this speciality for the last three decades. Indeed if all those on this list who recommend Kirklin's book spent time reading that chapter, I would get much less opposition when I challenge the so called 'evidence', conventional thinking and anecdotal based medicine often promoted as 'fact' on this forum. 

However the style of writing, the emphasis on data, and the over-referencing make it a very difficult book to read. Indeed this is acknowledged by the new editors - Kouchoukos et al as there is a clear attempt to make the most recent edition for presentable and readable than the two earlier editions. The reality is that the resident in 2007 is different from that of 1977. The Kirklin book has masses of information which the average resident or fellow would find it difficult to grasp. 

You summed it correctly that Kirklin's book is written for those with an understanding, seeking deeper understanding. Most residents and beginners - and even many practising surgeons - do not have such understanding. I do not think there is a need for any apologies - as you say this is really a reference source or a source for deeper knowledge and certainly not a place to begin. I am still a beginner myself and hopefully as I develop in the speciality, I will get to the stage that I also can easily read and understand this great book. 

Ani 

> Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 10:01:47 -0500> From: ichfno at aol.com> Subject: Re: [HSF] Cardiac Surgery Textbook> To: OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com> CC: > > Ani, not sure which version of Kirklin you are referring to as "one of the most poorly written books ever." Certainly Dr. John would not turn in his grave if he heard this, he would most likely simply dismiss the statement as one of ignorance. No, the textbook is not for the beginner, because beginners should start at a more basic level, John's book was written and is still written for those with an understanding and are seeking a deeper understanding. Poorly written, hmmmmmmmm!> > WNovick> > > > In a message dated 08/08/07 09:55:22 Central Daylight Time, prasannasimha at gmail.com writes:> The "not good" is OK but what then is OK ? > I still think many of the basic concepts have still remained pretty > unchanged in cardiac surgery !! These books can form a groundwork over > which further knowledge can be
 built. It doesn't harm to 
read a bit of > the old with thenew. Take Charles Reed - textbook of perfusion - very > dated but 90 % still applicable and the basics hold true even today !! > Prasanna > Ani Anyanwu wrote: > > Kirklin in my opinion is one of the most poorly written books ever. It is not user-friendly and certainly not a book to begin with to gain fundamental concepts. It is an excellent reference text however (and probably the best in this regard). > > > > Glenn, whilst an excellent and readable book, is no longer in print and is dated (last edition 1996) so is neither advisable nor assessable for the beginner in 2007. > > > > Ani > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 07:11:22 +0530> From: prasannasimha at gmail.com> To: OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com> Subject: Re: [HSF] Cardiac Surgery Textbook> CC: > > Kirklin for detail> Glenn for fun (most readable)> Sabiston for enjoyment (especially for the summary of the cross > references given at the end of each
 chapter)> Shields for Thor
acic> Rutherford for Vascular.> Prasanna> Faisal H. Cheema, M.D. wrote:> > Dear HSF Members: > >> > Which cardiac surgery textbook would you recommend for a beginner to develop> > fundamental concepts?> >> > Thanking you in anticipation for your advice,> >> > Sincerely,> > Faisal> >> > ----------------------------------------------------> >> > Faisal H. Cheema, M.D.> >> > Associate Research Scientist> >> > Division of Cardiothoracic Surgery> >> > College of Physicians and Surgeons of Columbia University - New York> > Presbyterian Hospital,> >> > MHB 7 GN 435, 177 Fort Washington Ave, New York, NY 10032> >> > Office: (212) 305 5108, Pager: (917> ) 899 4698, Fax: (212) 342 5309, Cell:> > (917) 499 5115> >> > > >> > _______________________________________________> > OpenHeart-L mailing list> >> > Send postings to:> > OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com> >> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives:> >
 http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l> >> > All mess
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