From prasannasimha at gmail.com Mon Jan 1 00:00:02 2007 From: prasannasimha at gmail.com (prasannasimha) Date: Sun Dec 31 13:56:30 2006 Subject: [HSF] Happy New Year Message-ID: <459801AA.1020006@gmail.com> We have crossed 12 Midnight in India . Happy New Year 2007 Prasanna From benjamin.bidstrup at bigpond.com Mon Jan 1 14:14:34 2007 From: benjamin.bidstrup at bigpond.com (Ben Bidstrup) Date: Sun Dec 31 22:15:31 2006 Subject: [HSF] Paper Journals in an Internet age. In-Reply-To: <000001c72d46$b222bc50$0401a8c0@OEM> References: <000001c72d46$b222bc50$0401a8c0@OEM> Message-ID: Having just moved offices, I made a decision re old journals. I looked at what was available on line. I kept the early editions of JTCVS, Annals and a few others that did not have full text on line. I had in the past got bound copies of many Journals so they were an efficient way of keeping them. The rest went to the recycling bin. So my hard copy library is a single book case, not 30 boxes ! >agree and concur with you. lost big time is having such shelves. now at >finger tips .... just being sentimental t old days > >NFA >> -----Original Message----- >> From: openheart-l-bounces@lists.hsforum.com [mailto:openheart-l- >> bounces@lists.hsforum.com] On Behalf Of Michael Firstenberg >> Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 5:13 PM >> To: OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >> Subject: [HSF] Paper Journals in an Internet age. >> >> I used to like the idea of entire bookselves filled with Journals - >> now they just take up tons of space. Since, for the most part the >> internet and PDF access (at least to recent stuff) is easy - does >> anyone keep this stuff anymore? if so why? >> >> Am I just being sentimental for the old days? >> >> >> -michael >> >> >> HAPPY NEW YEAR to all >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OpenHeart-L mailing list >> >> Send postings to: >> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >> >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l >> >> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the policies >and >> disclaimers posted at: >> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >> ----------------------------------------- > >_______________________________________________ >OpenHeart-L mailing list > >Send postings to: > OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com > >To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l > >All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the policies and >disclaimers posted at: >http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >----------------------------------------- -- Ben Bidstrup FRACS FRCSEd FEBCTS Consultant Cardiothoracic Surgeon From prasannasimha at gmail.com Mon Jan 1 10:30:27 2007 From: prasannasimha at gmail.com (prasannasimha) Date: Mon Jan 1 01:06:19 2007 Subject: [HSF] Paper Journals in an Internet age. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4598956B.8050401@gmail.com> For me it is very plain and simple. If I were to subscribe to ATS, JTCVS and EJTCVS, I would have to spend nearly Rs 10,000/= approx per month and that is impossible for me. So I rely on the Hospital Library which gets journals at its own time depending on subscriptions and vagaries of airmail. We have a thing called Helinet.This is a system where our hospital subscribes via our Health university (we have a single university for all medical colleges in Karnataka state) to an Internet based service called HELINET through which we can access certain journals via things like science direct , Ovid etc but unfortunately the only cardiac surgery journal is ATS and that too its payment (and hence access) is a bit erratic. I usually get articles of interest via many kind souls who send them over to me when I ask via email and I acknowledge their altruism in helping me out. There are many journals that are free after varying amounts of time. I can get access say after 6 months or a year and some are free access for India (for Eg Lancet / NEJM etc). Unfortunately the free access system (after a period of time) does not exist for cardiac surgical journals except a couple. The whole process of journal writing etc are to allow dissemination of Knowledge and I cannot see why it has to be locked down after say 6 months or a year. I appreciate that journal publishing companies have to make profits but they should allow free access at least after some time. The contributors and editors have done it for gratis and they should allow access after some time. This would increase the journal's prestige and impact factor anyway. All I have is a few old dusty copies of some earth shaking articles for eg Lillehei's original cross circulation paper and Hillel Laks "Laks suture" (fenestrated ASD for Fontan's) etc. I hold on to these. Then there is a thing called Amedeo which sends interesting articles (the titles and links to PUBMED) weekly which I find useful and PUBMED is great for doing literature searches. I remember taking around 50 disks of Silver Platter and searching Index Medicus or worse the huge bound Journals of Index Medicus that I had to wade through when I did my MS(Gen surg) and MCh(Thoracic) degrees. I had to wear a mask and cap while I rummaged through all those books. My MS thesis was on gall stones and since I read every reference that I quoted, I was searching in the really old archived section of Grant Medical College (which is around 170 years old and so had most of the really old journals). Since photocopying was not very prevalent and expensive , most of these used to be read and the article summarized in a note book.I used to have a carbon paper copy of each page while writing. Writing a thesis was actually involving cut and paste (we used to write it in sections and then actually cut out portions and paste them on sheets) -I still remember Jimmy Carter getting one of the original word processors (basically what we could call as an electronic typewriter) and when I saw my first one. I said Wow it can justify edges and we can correct the lines prior to typing using a preview option. My first thesis was written when I was doing my MBBS - (I had got a research grant as a first year medical student - a rare thing in India those days) and typing on a manual typewriter was such a pain and getting some one to type who could understand medical terminology was a bigger pain !! At that time photocopying was such a laborious process (I am sure many would remember the old manual photocopiers involving a frame with toner that used to be shaked and the margins of the photocopier surface had to be wiped etc) Writing it down was easier !! The final indexing was a tremendous pain invovling flash cards and indexing cards !! Today we can do it all in a click of a button !!! Dr Frater could probably tell about his tribulations in his time !! Prasanna Michael Firstenberg wrote: > I used to like the idea of entire bookselves filled with Journals - > now they just take up tons of space. Since, for the most part the > internet and PDF access (at least to recent stuff) is easy - does > anyone keep this stuff anymore? if so why? > > Am I just being sentimental for the old days? > > > -michael > > > HAPPY NEW YEAR to all > > > _______________________________________________ > OpenHeart-L mailing list > > Send postings to: > OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: > http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l > > All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the > policies anddisclaimers posted at: > http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim > ----------------------------------------- > > > --No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.1/611 - Release Date: > 12/31/2006 12:47 PM > > From donross at bigpond.com Mon Jan 1 18:43:07 2007 From: donross at bigpond.com (Donald Ross) Date: Mon Jan 1 02:43:48 2007 Subject: [HSF] Happy New Year In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From Sydney where a lazy $4M goes up in smoke each year. ( Awe without the shock.) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Fireworks 11 for email.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 47647 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mmp.cjp.com/pipermail/openheart-l/attachments/20070101/a3989f31/Fireworks11foremail-0001.jpg -------------- next part -------------- Don From prasannasimha at gmail.com Mon Jan 1 13:18:03 2007 From: prasannasimha at gmail.com (psimha) Date: Mon Jan 1 02:48:38 2007 Subject: [HSF] Happy New Year In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4598BCB3.8030907@sify.com> What about the bridge ?? Prasanna Donald Ross wrote: > From Sydney where a lazy $4M goes up in smoke each year. ( Awe > without the shock.) > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Don > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > OpenHeart-L mailing list > > Send postings to: > OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: > http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l > > All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the policies and > disclaimers posted at: > http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim > ----------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.1/611 - Release Date: 12/31/2006 12:47 PM > From CardiacNse at aol.com Mon Jan 1 05:31:34 2007 From: CardiacNse at aol.com (CardiacNse@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 1 05:35:58 2007 Subject: [HSF] Happy New Year Message-ID: Happy New Year colleagues. Thank you for your continued dedication to the safe, effective, and appropriate care of our patients. I, for one, always remember what you have gone through to get where you are. Those of us in healthcare have been given a great gift, that of having the knowledge and often the courage to help ease the suffering of patients. May 2007 continue to provide satisfaction in knowing that we have chosen the best way to spend our lives. Becky Davis Blessed to have chosen to be a Nurse From sukumarhmehta at yahoo.com Mon Jan 1 03:32:52 2007 From: sukumarhmehta at yahoo.com (Mehta Sukumar) Date: Mon Jan 1 06:34:22 2007 Subject: [HSF] Happy New Year In-Reply-To: <4598BCB3.8030907@sify.com> Message-ID: <71691.64380.qm@web36504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Yes, it seems the picture was taken at some other place, not at the famous landmark of Sydney harbour and opera. Sukumar. psimha wrote: What about the bridge ?? Prasanna Donald Ross wrote: > From Sydney where a lazy $4M goes up in smoke each year. ( Awe > without the shock.) > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Don __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From donross at bigpond.com Mon Jan 1 23:25:58 2007 From: donross at bigpond.com (Donald Ross) Date: Mon Jan 1 07:27:28 2007 Subject: [HSF] Happy New Year In-Reply-To: <71691.64380.qm@web36504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <71691.64380.qm@web36504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5DF4AF22-7F4B-4351-9754-49A06666B9AF@bigpond.com> Sorry about the absence of famous landmarks. The picture was taken by one of my old patients from the widow of his apartment. I don't have wealthy enough clientele to afford the best views. Don On 01/01/2007, at 10:32 PM, Mehta Sukumar wrote: > Yes, it seems the picture was taken at some other place, not at the > famous landmark of Sydney harbour and opera. > Sukumar. > > psimha wrote: > What about the bridge ?? > Prasanna > Donald Ross wrote: >> From Sydney where a lazy $4M goes up in smoke each year. ( Awe >> without the shock.) >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> >> >> Don > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > OpenHeart-L mailing list > > Send postings to: > OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: > http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l > > All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the > policies and > disclaimers posted at: > http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim > ----------------------------------------- From msfirst at gmail.com Mon Jan 1 08:20:49 2007 From: msfirst at gmail.com (Michael Firstenberg) Date: Mon Jan 1 08:21:14 2007 Subject: [HSF] Paper Journals in an Internet age. In-Reply-To: References: <000001c72d46$b222bc50$0401a8c0@OEM> Message-ID: <75C78187-434E-486B-A5BD-FECB2B48425E@gmail.com> once again, Ben, that sounds likes the best plan. Agree with Hal - we can just call our friendly librarian in India. -michael On Dec 31, 2006, at 10:14 PM, Ben Bidstrup wrote: > Having just moved offices, I made a decision re old journals. I > looked at what was available on line. I kept the early editions of > JTCVS, Annals and a few others that > did not have full text on line. I had in the past got bound copies > of many Journals so they were an efficient way of keeping them. The > rest went to the recycling bin. > So my hard copy library is a single book case, not 30 boxes ! > >> agree and concur with you. lost big time is having such shelves. >> now at >> finger tips .... just being sentimental t old days >> >> NFA >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: openheart-l-bounces@lists.hsforum.com [mailto:openheart-l- >>> bounces@lists.hsforum.com] On Behalf Of Michael Firstenberg >>> Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 5:13 PM >>> To: OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >>> Subject: [HSF] Paper Journals in an Internet age. >>> >>> I used to like the idea of entire bookselves filled with Journals - >>> now they just take up tons of space. Since, for the most part the >>> internet and PDF access (at least to recent stuff) is easy - does >>> anyone keep this stuff anymore? if so why? >>> >>> Am I just being sentimental for the old days? >>> >>> >>> -michael >>> >>> >>> HAPPY NEW YEAR to all >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OpenHeart-L mailing list >>> >>> Send postings to: >>> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >>> >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >>> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l >>> >>> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >>> policies >> and >>> disclaimers posted at: >>> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >>> ----------------------------------------- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OpenHeart-L mailing list >> >> Send postings to: >> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >> >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l >> >> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >> policies and >> disclaimers posted at: >> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >> ----------------------------------------- > > > -- > Ben Bidstrup FRACS FRCSEd FEBCTS > Consultant Cardiothoracic Surgeon > _______________________________________________ > OpenHeart-L mailing list > > Send postings to: > OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: > http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l > > All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the > policies and disclaimers posted at: > http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim > ----------------------------------------- From msfirst at gmail.com Mon Jan 1 08:29:24 2007 From: msfirst at gmail.com (Michael Firstenberg) Date: Mon Jan 1 08:35:53 2007 Subject: [HSF] Paper Journals in an Internet age. In-Reply-To: <4598956B.8050401@gmail.com> References: <4598956B.8050401@gmail.com> Message-ID: <17F52111-E2F3-49D4-B4A3-6D12105DCD80@gmail.com> Ahhh, those where the days - I remember using some online reference systems and thinking wow, this is great. Prasanna - what would it take to get some copies of some of those early papers? (ie scanned PDFs?) -michael On Jan 1, 2007, at 12:00 AM, prasannasimha wrote: > For me it is very plain and simple. If I were to subscribe to ATS, > JTCVS and EJTCVS, I would have to spend nearly Rs 10,000/= approx > per month and that is impossible for me. So I rely on the Hospital > Library which gets journals at its own time depending on > subscriptions and vagaries of airmail. We have a thing called > Helinet.This is a system where our hospital subscribes via our > Health university (we have a single university for all medical > colleges in Karnataka state) to an Internet based service called > HELINET through which we can access certain journals via things > like science direct , Ovid etc but unfortunately the only cardiac > surgery journal is ATS and that too its payment (and hence access) > is a bit erratic. I usually get articles of interest via many kind > souls who send them over to me when I ask via email and I > acknowledge their altruism in helping me out. There are many > journals that are free after varying amounts of time. I can get > access say after 6 months or a year and some are free access for > India (for Eg Lancet / NEJM etc). Unfortunately the free access > system (after a period of time) does not exist for cardiac surgical > journals except a couple. > The whole process of journal writing etc are to allow dissemination > of Knowledge and I cannot see why it has to be locked down after > say 6 months or a year. I appreciate that journal publishing > companies have to make profits but they should allow free access at > least after some time. The contributors and editors have done it > for gratis and they should allow access after some time. This would > increase the journal's prestige and impact factor anyway. > All I have is a few old dusty copies of some earth shaking articles > for eg Lillehei's original cross circulation paper and Hillel Laks > "Laks suture" (fenestrated ASD for Fontan's) etc. I hold on to these. > Then there is a thing called Amedeo which sends interesting > articles (the titles and links to PUBMED) weekly which I find > useful and PUBMED is great for doing literature searches. > > I remember taking around 50 disks of Silver Platter and searching > Index Medicus or worse the huge bound Journals of Index Medicus > that I had to wade through when I did my MS(Gen surg) and MCh > (Thoracic) degrees. I had to wear a mask and cap while I rummaged > through all those books. My MS thesis was on gall stones and since > I read every reference that I quoted, I was searching in the really > old archived section of Grant Medical College (which is around 170 > years old and so had most of the really old journals). Since > photocopying was not very prevalent and expensive , most of these > used to be read and the article summarized in a note book.I used to > have a carbon paper copy of each page while writing. Writing a > thesis was actually involving cut and paste (we used to write it in > sections and then actually cut out portions and paste them on > sheets) -I still remember Jimmy Carter getting one of the original > word processors (basically what we could call as an electronic > typewriter) and when I saw my first one. I said Wow it can justify > edges and we can correct the lines prior to typing using a preview > option. My first thesis was written when I was doing my MBBS - (I > had got a research grant as a first year medical student - a rare > thing in India those days) and typing on a manual typewriter was > such a pain and getting some one to type who could understand > medical terminology was a bigger pain !! At that time photocopying > was such a laborious process (I am sure many would remember the old > manual photocopiers involving a frame with toner that used to be > shaked and the margins of the photocopier surface had to be wiped > etc) Writing it down was easier !! > The final indexing was a tremendous pain invovling flash cards and > indexing cards !! > Today we can do it all in a click of a button !!! > Dr Frater could probably tell about his tribulations in his time !! > Prasanna > Michael Firstenberg wrote: >> I used to like the idea of entire bookselves filled with Journals >> - now they just take up tons of space. Since, for the most part >> the internet and PDF access (at least to recent stuff) is easy - >> does anyone keep this stuff anymore? if so why? >> >> Am I just being sentimental for the old days? >> >> >> -michael >> >> >> HAPPY NEW YEAR to all >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OpenHeart-L mailing list >> >> Send postings to: >> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >> >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l >> >> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >> policies anddisclaimers posted at: >> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >> ----------------------------------------- >> >> >> --No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.1/611 - Release Date: >> 12/31/2006 12:47 PM >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > OpenHeart-L mailing list > > Send postings to: > OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: > http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l > > All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the > policies and disclaimers posted at: > http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim > ----------------------------------------- From prasannasimha at gmail.com Mon Jan 1 19:46:26 2007 From: prasannasimha at gmail.com (prasannasimha) Date: Mon Jan 1 09:23:49 2007 Subject: [HSF] Paper Journals in an Internet age. In-Reply-To: <17F52111-E2F3-49D4-B4A3-6D12105DCD80@gmail.com> References: <4598956B.8050401@gmail.com> <17F52111-E2F3-49D4-B4A3-6D12105DCD80@gmail.com> Message-ID: <459917BA.7020808@gmail.com> I am trying to do some but have to get the time and teh Mood !! If some one can send me some of these important ones like Gibbon's original paper which was impossible for me to get hands on we could make one large collection of the "Most Important papers in Cardiac surgery". If we could agree to a list of 50 most important papers we could try to collect them and make them into one large PDF with a brief write up of them and why they were so important. For starters Alexis Carrel's vascular suture paper. Jay Macleans paper on Heparin Gibbons' original paper Bigelow's work on hypothermia with ennis first clinical attempt. Andreas and Watson's controlled cross circulation (Paper I never got to see) Lillehei's controlled cross circulation. Kirklin's initial series. Bharati and Lev's paper on the conduction system in relation to VSD's Jatenes original paper on the arterial switch Fontan's original paper Zuhdi et al paper on hemodilution with the paper by Cooley added to it. Castaneda's paper on neonatal correction. Horiuchi's paper of circulatory arrest with the subsequent paper by Barret Boyes. Debakey and Cooley's paper on aortic arch aneurysm's Laks stitch for controllable ASD Kantrowitz's paper on IABP. That is an initial list off hand. Prasanna Michael Firstenberg wrote: > Ahhh, those where the days - I remember using some online reference > systems and thinking wow, this is great. > > Prasanna - what would it take to get some copies of some of those > early papers? (ie scanned PDFs?) > > -michael > > > On Jan 1, 2007, at 12:00 AM, prasannasimha wrote: > >> For me it is very plain and simple. If I were to subscribe to ATS, >> JTCVS and EJTCVS, I would have to spend nearly Rs 10,000/= approx per >> month and that is impossible for me. So I rely on the Hospital >> Library which gets journals at its own time depending on >> subscriptions and vagaries of airmail. We have a thing called >> Helinet.This is a system where our hospital subscribes via our Health >> university (we have a single university for all medical colleges in >> Karnataka state) to an Internet based service called HELINET through >> which we can access certain journals via things like science direct , >> Ovid etc but unfortunately the only cardiac surgery journal is ATS >> and that too its payment (and hence access) is a bit erratic. I >> usually get articles of interest via many kind souls who send them >> over to me when I ask via email and I acknowledge their altruism in >> helping me out. There are many journals that are free after varying >> amounts of time. I can get access say after 6 months or a year and >> some are free access for India (for Eg Lancet / NEJM etc). >> Unfortunately the free access system (after a period of time) does >> not exist for cardiac surgical journals except a couple. >> The whole process of journal writing etc are to allow dissemination >> of Knowledge and I cannot see why it has to be locked down after say >> 6 months or a year. I appreciate that journal publishing companies >> have to make profits but they should allow free access at least after >> some time. The contributors and editors have done it for gratis and >> they should allow access after some time. This would increase the >> journal's prestige and impact factor anyway. >> All I have is a few old dusty copies of some earth shaking articles >> for eg Lillehei's original cross circulation paper and Hillel Laks >> "Laks suture" (fenestrated ASD for Fontan's) etc. I hold on to these. >> Then there is a thing called Amedeo which sends interesting articles >> (the titles and links to PUBMED) weekly which I find useful and >> PUBMED is great for doing literature searches. >> >> I remember taking around 50 disks of Silver Platter and searching >> Index Medicus or worse the huge bound Journals of Index Medicus that >> I had to wade through when I did my MS(Gen surg) and MCh(Thoracic) >> degrees. I had to wear a mask and cap while I rummaged through all >> those books. My MS thesis was on gall stones and since I read every >> reference that I quoted, I was searching in the really old archived >> section of Grant Medical College (which is around 170 years old and >> so had most of the really old journals). Since photocopying was not >> very prevalent and expensive , most of these used to be read and the >> article summarized in a note book.I used to have a carbon paper copy >> of each page while writing. Writing a thesis was actually involving >> cut and paste (we used to write it in sections and then actually cut >> out portions and paste them on sheets) -I still remember Jimmy Carter >> getting one of the original word processors (basically what we could >> call as an electronic typewriter) and when I saw my first one. I said >> Wow it can justify edges and we can correct the lines prior to typing >> using a preview option. My first thesis was written when I was doing >> my MBBS - (I had got a research grant as a first year medical >> student - a rare thing in India those days) and typing on a manual >> typewriter was such a pain and getting some one to type who could >> understand medical terminology was a bigger pain !! At that time >> photocopying was such a laborious process (I am sure many would >> remember the old manual photocopiers involving a frame with toner >> that used to be shaked and the margins of the photocopier surface had >> to be wiped etc) Writing it down was easier !! >> The final indexing was a tremendous pain invovling flash cards and >> indexing cards !! >> Today we can do it all in a click of a button !!! >> Dr Frater could probably tell about his tribulations in his time !! >> Prasanna >> Michael Firstenberg wrote: >>> I used to like the idea of entire bookselves filled with Journals - >>> now they just take up tons of space. Since, for the most part the >>> internet and PDF access (at least to recent stuff) is easy - does >>> anyone keep this stuff anymore? if so why? >>> >>> Am I just being sentimental for the old days? >>> >>> >>> -michael >>> >>> >>> HAPPY NEW YEAR to all >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OpenHeart-L mailing list >>> >>> Send postings to: >>> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >>> >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >>> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l >>> >>> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >>> policies anddisclaimers posted at: >>> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >>> ----------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> --No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.1/611 - Release Date: >>> 12/31/2006 12:47 PM >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OpenHeart-L mailing list >> >> Send postings to: >> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >> >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l >> >> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >> policies and disclaimers posted at: >> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >> ----------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > OpenHeart-L mailing list > > Send postings to: > OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: > http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l > > All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the > policies anddisclaimers posted at: > http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim > ----------------------------------------- > From prasannasimha at gmail.com Mon Jan 1 19:54:19 2007 From: prasannasimha at gmail.com (prasannasimha) Date: Mon Jan 1 09:31:08 2007 Subject: [HSF] Paper Journals in an Internet age. In-Reply-To: <459917BA.7020808@gmail.com> References: <4598956B.8050401@gmail.com> <17F52111-E2F3-49D4-B4A3-6D12105DCD80@gmail.com> <459917BA.7020808@gmail.com> Message-ID: <45991993.5030701@gmail.com> Also most importantly Rehn's paper on the first successful attempt at cardiac suture. Prasanna prasannasimha wrote: > I am trying to do some but have to get the time and teh Mood !! If > some one can send me some of these important ones like Gibbon's > original paper which was impossible for me to get hands on we could > make one large collection of the "Most Important papers in Cardiac > surgery". > If we could agree to a list of 50 most important papers we could try > to collect them and make them into one large PDF with a brief write up > of them and why they were so important. > For starters > Alexis Carrel's vascular suture paper. > Jay Macleans paper on Heparin > Gibbons' original paper > Bigelow's work on hypothermia with ennis first clinical attempt. > Andreas and Watson's controlled cross circulation (Paper I never got > to see) > Lillehei's controlled cross circulation. > Kirklin's initial series. > Bharati and Lev's paper on the conduction system in relation to VSD's > Jatenes original paper on the arterial switch > Fontan's original paper > Zuhdi et al paper on hemodilution with the paper by Cooley added to it. > Castaneda's paper on neonatal correction. > Horiuchi's paper of circulatory arrest with the subsequent paper by > Barret Boyes. > Debakey and Cooley's paper on aortic arch aneurysm's > Laks stitch for controllable ASD > Kantrowitz's paper on IABP. > > That is an initial list off hand. > > Prasanna > > > > > Michael Firstenberg wrote: >> Ahhh, those where the days - I remember using some online reference >> systems and thinking wow, this is great. >> >> Prasanna - what would it take to get some copies of some of those >> early papers? (ie scanned PDFs?) >> >> -michael >> >> >> On Jan 1, 2007, at 12:00 AM, prasannasimha wrote: >> >>> For me it is very plain and simple. If I were to subscribe to ATS, >>> JTCVS and EJTCVS, I would have to spend nearly Rs 10,000/= approx >>> per month and that is impossible for me. So I rely on the Hospital >>> Library which gets journals at its own time depending on >>> subscriptions and vagaries of airmail. We have a thing called >>> Helinet.This is a system where our hospital subscribes via our >>> Health university (we have a single university for all medical >>> colleges in Karnataka state) to an Internet based service called >>> HELINET through which we can access certain journals via things like >>> science direct , Ovid etc but unfortunately the only cardiac surgery >>> journal is ATS and that too its payment (and hence access) is a bit >>> erratic. I usually get articles of interest via many kind souls who >>> send them over to me when I ask via email and I acknowledge their >>> altruism in helping me out. There are many journals that are free >>> after varying amounts of time. I can get access say after 6 months >>> or a year and some are free access for India (for Eg Lancet / NEJM >>> etc). Unfortunately the free access system (after a period of time) >>> does not exist for cardiac surgical journals except a couple. >>> The whole process of journal writing etc are to allow dissemination >>> of Knowledge and I cannot see why it has to be locked down after say >>> 6 months or a year. I appreciate that journal publishing companies >>> have to make profits but they should allow free access at least >>> after some time. The contributors and editors have done it for >>> gratis and they should allow access after some time. This would >>> increase the journal's prestige and impact factor anyway. >>> All I have is a few old dusty copies of some earth shaking articles >>> for eg Lillehei's original cross circulation paper and Hillel Laks >>> "Laks suture" (fenestrated ASD for Fontan's) etc. I hold on to these. >>> Then there is a thing called Amedeo which sends interesting articles >>> (the titles and links to PUBMED) weekly which I find useful and >>> PUBMED is great for doing literature searches. >>> >>> I remember taking around 50 disks of Silver Platter and searching >>> Index Medicus or worse the huge bound Journals of Index Medicus that >>> I had to wade through when I did my MS(Gen surg) and MCh(Thoracic) >>> degrees. I had to wear a mask and cap while I rummaged through all >>> those books. My MS thesis was on gall stones and since I read every >>> reference that I quoted, I was searching in the really old archived >>> section of Grant Medical College (which is around 170 years old and >>> so had most of the really old journals). Since photocopying was not >>> very prevalent and expensive , most of these used to be read and the >>> article summarized in a note book.I used to have a carbon paper copy >>> of each page while writing. Writing a thesis was actually involving >>> cut and paste (we used to write it in sections and then actually cut >>> out portions and paste them on sheets) -I still remember Jimmy >>> Carter getting one of the original word processors (basically what >>> we could call as an electronic typewriter) and when I saw my first >>> one. I said Wow it can justify edges and we can correct the lines >>> prior to typing using a preview option. My first thesis was written >>> when I was doing my MBBS - (I had got a research grant as a first >>> year medical student - a rare thing in India those days) and typing >>> on a manual typewriter was such a pain and getting some one to type >>> who could understand medical terminology was a bigger pain !! At >>> that time photocopying was such a laborious process (I am sure many >>> would remember the old manual photocopiers involving a frame with >>> toner that used to be shaked and the margins of the photocopier >>> surface had to be wiped etc) Writing it down was easier !! >>> The final indexing was a tremendous pain invovling flash cards and >>> indexing cards !! >>> Today we can do it all in a click of a button !!! >>> Dr Frater could probably tell about his tribulations in his time !! >>> Prasanna >>> Michael Firstenberg wrote: >>>> I used to like the idea of entire bookselves filled with Journals - >>>> now they just take up tons of space. Since, for the most part the >>>> internet and PDF access (at least to recent stuff) is easy - does >>>> anyone keep this stuff anymore? if so why? >>>> >>>> Am I just being sentimental for the old days? >>>> >>>> >>>> -michael >>>> >>>> >>>> HAPPY NEW YEAR to all >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> OpenHeart-L mailing list >>>> >>>> Send postings to: >>>> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >>>> >>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >>>> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l >>>> >>>> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >>>> policies anddisclaimers posted at: >>>> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >>>> ----------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> --No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>>> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.1/611 - Release Date: >>>> 12/31/2006 12:47 PM >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OpenHeart-L mailing list >>> >>> Send postings to: >>> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >>> >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >>> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l >>> >>> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >>> policies and disclaimers posted at: >>> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >>> ----------------------------------------- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OpenHeart-L mailing list >> >> Send postings to: >> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >> >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l >> >> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >> policies anddisclaimers posted at: >> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >> ----------------------------------------- >> > From msfirst at gmail.com Mon Jan 1 09:32:31 2007 From: msfirst at gmail.com (Michael Firstenberg) Date: Mon Jan 1 09:33:05 2007 Subject: [HSF] Paper Journals in an Internet age. In-Reply-To: <459917BA.7020808@gmail.com> References: <4598956B.8050401@gmail.com> <17F52111-E2F3-49D4-B4A3-6D12105DCD80@gmail.com> <459917BA.7020808@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8C9CA4B1-D5A3-461B-ADB4-2262D4C7825C@gmail.com> Prasanna - That would be great! We clearly need something like "Most Important Papers....." Not sure what the copyright issues would be, but would be nice to post them on the Wiki (or some other source?) GET TO WORK on scanning! Or you could just tease us - like one per week and we can have an old fashion journal club discussion on each one - like why it was so important and how things have change - like they say about those that dont learn from their past. I have a senior surgeon/mentor at work who does not operate anymore - more of a father figure to us all - and I want his help on a similar project. -michael On Jan 1, 2007, at 9:16 AM, prasannasimha wrote: > I am trying to do some but have to get the time and teh Mood !! If > some one can send me some of these important ones like Gibbon's > original paper which was impossible for me to get hands on we could > make one large collection of the "Most Important papers in Cardiac > surgery". > If we could agree to a list of 50 most important papers we could > try to collect them and make them into one large PDF with a brief > write up of them and why they were so important. > For starters > Alexis Carrel's vascular suture paper. > Jay Macleans paper on Heparin > Gibbons' original paper > Bigelow's work on hypothermia with ennis first clinical attempt. > Andreas and Watson's controlled cross circulation (Paper I never > got to see) > Lillehei's controlled cross circulation. > Kirklin's initial series. > Bharati and Lev's paper on the conduction system in relation to VSD's > Jatenes original paper on the arterial switch > Fontan's original paper > Zuhdi et al paper on hemodilution with the paper by Cooley added > to it. > Castaneda's paper on neonatal correction. > Horiuchi's paper of circulatory arrest with the subsequent paper by > Barret Boyes. > Debakey and Cooley's paper on aortic arch aneurysm's > Laks stitch for controllable ASD > Kantrowitz's paper on IABP. > > That is an initial list off hand. > > Prasanna > > > > > Michael Firstenberg wrote: >> Ahhh, those where the days - I remember using some online >> reference systems and thinking wow, this is great. >> >> Prasanna - what would it take to get some copies of some of those >> early papers? (ie scanned PDFs?) >> >> -michael >> >> >> On Jan 1, 2007, at 12:00 AM, prasannasimha wrote: >> >>> For me it is very plain and simple. If I were to subscribe to >>> ATS, JTCVS and EJTCVS, I would have to spend nearly Rs 10,000/= >>> approx per month and that is impossible for me. So I rely on the >>> Hospital Library which gets journals at its own time depending on >>> subscriptions and vagaries of airmail. We have a thing called >>> Helinet.This is a system where our hospital subscribes via our >>> Health university (we have a single university for all medical >>> colleges in Karnataka state) to an Internet based service called >>> HELINET through which we can access certain journals via things >>> like science direct , Ovid etc but unfortunately the only cardiac >>> surgery journal is ATS and that too its payment (and hence >>> access) is a bit erratic. I usually get articles of interest via >>> many kind souls who send them over to me when I ask via email and >>> I acknowledge their altruism in helping me out. There are many >>> journals that are free after varying amounts of time. I can get >>> access say after 6 months or a year and some are free access for >>> India (for Eg Lancet / NEJM etc). Unfortunately the free access >>> system (after a period of time) does not exist for cardiac >>> surgical journals except a couple. >>> The whole process of journal writing etc are to allow >>> dissemination of Knowledge and I cannot see why it has to be >>> locked down after say 6 months or a year. I appreciate that >>> journal publishing companies have to make profits but they should >>> allow free access at least after some time. The contributors and >>> editors have done it for gratis and they should allow access >>> after some time. This would increase the journal's prestige and >>> impact factor anyway. >>> All I have is a few old dusty copies of some earth shaking >>> articles for eg Lillehei's original cross circulation paper and >>> Hillel Laks "Laks suture" (fenestrated ASD for Fontan's) etc. I >>> hold on to these. >>> Then there is a thing called Amedeo which sends interesting >>> articles (the titles and links to PUBMED) weekly which I find >>> useful and PUBMED is great for doing literature searches. >>> >>> I remember taking around 50 disks of Silver Platter and searching >>> Index Medicus or worse the huge bound Journals of Index Medicus >>> that I had to wade through when I did my MS(Gen surg) and MCh >>> (Thoracic) degrees. I had to wear a mask and cap while I rummaged >>> through all those books. My MS thesis was on gall stones and >>> since I read every reference that I quoted, I was searching in >>> the really old archived section of Grant Medical College (which >>> is around 170 years old and so had most of the really old >>> journals). Since photocopying was not very prevalent and >>> expensive , most of these used to be read and the article >>> summarized in a note book.I used to have a carbon paper copy of >>> each page while writing. Writing a thesis was actually involving >>> cut and paste (we used to write it in sections and then actually >>> cut out portions and paste them on sheets) -I still remember >>> Jimmy Carter getting one of the original word processors >>> (basically what we could call as an electronic typewriter) and >>> when I saw my first one. I said Wow it can justify edges and we >>> can correct the lines prior to typing using a preview option. My >>> first thesis was written when I was doing my MBBS - (I had got a >>> research grant as a first year medical student - a rare thing in >>> India those days) and typing on a manual typewriter was such a >>> pain and getting some one to type who could understand medical >>> terminology was a bigger pain !! At that time photocopying was >>> such a laborious process (I am sure many would remember the old >>> manual photocopiers involving a frame with toner that used to be >>> shaked and the margins of the photocopier surface had to be wiped >>> etc) Writing it down was easier !! >>> The final indexing was a tremendous pain invovling flash cards >>> and indexing cards !! >>> Today we can do it all in a click of a button !!! >>> Dr Frater could probably tell about his tribulations in his time !! >>> Prasanna >>> Michael Firstenberg wrote: >>>> I used to like the idea of entire bookselves filled with >>>> Journals - now they just take up tons of space. Since, for the >>>> most part the internet and PDF access (at least to recent stuff) >>>> is easy - does anyone keep this stuff anymore? if so why? >>>> >>>> Am I just being sentimental for the old days? >>>> >>>> >>>> -michael >>>> >>>> >>>> HAPPY NEW YEAR to all >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> OpenHeart-L mailing list >>>> >>>> Send postings to: >>>> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >>>> >>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >>>> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l >>>> >>>> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >>>> policies anddisclaimers posted at: >>>> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >>>> ----------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> --No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>>> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.1/611 - Release Date: >>>> 12/31/2006 12:47 PM >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OpenHeart-L mailing list >>> >>> Send postings to: >>> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >>> >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >>> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l >>> >>> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >>> policies and disclaimers posted at: >>> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >>> ----------------------------------------- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OpenHeart-L mailing list >> >> Send postings to: >> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >> >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l >> >> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >> policies anddisclaimers posted at: >> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >> ----------------------------------------- >> > _______________________________________________ > OpenHeart-L mailing list > > Send postings to: > OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: > http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l > > All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the > policies and disclaimers posted at: > http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim > ----------------------------------------- From msfirst at gmail.com Mon Jan 1 09:36:40 2007 From: msfirst at gmail.com (Michael Firstenberg) Date: Mon Jan 1 09:37:09 2007 Subject: [HSF] Paper Journals in an Internet age. In-Reply-To: <459917BA.7020808@gmail.com> References: <4598956B.8050401@gmail.com> <17F52111-E2F3-49D4-B4A3-6D12105DCD80@gmail.com> <459917BA.7020808@gmail.com> Message-ID: <82B13A5C-81FD-4397-AD2F-AAFE1F4A61A2@gmail.com> This is clearly a problem with the digital internet age - BI (before internet) - everything will be lost as it will not be available in a digital format, no one knows how to use a library, and even the major search engines (pubmed) dont go back too far. I remember doing a few literature search on the origins of a few surgical topics and digging up the original papers - sometimes very difficult - was kind of fun (some of the "landmark" papers would never be even considered these days - just look at Loop's NEJM IMA paper....) ... then again, a lot of the stuff out there now is also self- serving, biases, statistical mumbo-jumbo........ (and I will even include some of the things that I have written) -michael everyone else must be sleeping in after a good new year (I hope) since not too much discussion this am On Jan 1, 2007, at 9:16 AM, prasannasimha wrote: > I am trying to do some but have to get the time and teh Mood !! If > some one can send me some of these important ones like Gibbon's > original paper which was impossible for me to get hands on we could > make one large collection of the "Most Important papers in Cardiac > surgery". > If we could agree to a list of 50 most important papers we could > try to collect them and make them into one large PDF with a brief > write up of them and why they were so important. > For starters > Alexis Carrel's vascular suture paper. > Jay Macleans paper on Heparin > Gibbons' original paper > Bigelow's work on hypothermia with ennis first clinical attempt. > Andreas and Watson's controlled cross circulation (Paper I never > got to see) > Lillehei's controlled cross circulation. > Kirklin's initial series. > Bharati and Lev's paper on the conduction system in relation to VSD's > Jatenes original paper on the arterial switch > Fontan's original paper > Zuhdi et al paper on hemodilution with the paper by Cooley added > to it. > Castaneda's paper on neonatal correction. > Horiuchi's paper of circulatory arrest with the subsequent paper by > Barret Boyes. > Debakey and Cooley's paper on aortic arch aneurysm's > Laks stitch for controllable ASD > Kantrowitz's paper on IABP. > > That is an initial list off hand. > > Prasanna > > > > > Michael Firstenberg wrote: >> Ahhh, those where the days - I remember using some online >> reference systems and thinking wow, this is great. >> >> Prasanna - what would it take to get some copies of some of those >> early papers? (ie scanned PDFs?) >> >> -michael >> >> >> On Jan 1, 2007, at 12:00 AM, prasannasimha wrote: >> >>> For me it is very plain and simple. If I were to subscribe to >>> ATS, JTCVS and EJTCVS, I would have to spend nearly Rs 10,000/= >>> approx per month and that is impossible for me. So I rely on the >>> Hospital Library which gets journals at its own time depending on >>> subscriptions and vagaries of airmail. We have a thing called >>> Helinet.This is a system where our hospital subscribes via our >>> Health university (we have a single university for all medical >>> colleges in Karnataka state) to an Internet based service called >>> HELINET through which we can access certain journals via things >>> like science direct , Ovid etc but unfortunately the only cardiac >>> surgery journal is ATS and that too its payment (and hence >>> access) is a bit erratic. I usually get articles of interest via >>> many kind souls who send them over to me when I ask via email and >>> I acknowledge their altruism in helping me out. There are many >>> journals that are free after varying amounts of time. I can get >>> access say after 6 months or a year and some are free access for >>> India (for Eg Lancet / NEJM etc). Unfortunately the free access >>> system (after a period of time) does not exist for cardiac >>> surgical journals except a couple. >>> The whole process of journal writing etc are to allow >>> dissemination of Knowledge and I cannot see why it has to be >>> locked down after say 6 months or a year. I appreciate that >>> journal publishing companies have to make profits but they should >>> allow free access at least after some time. The contributors and >>> editors have done it for gratis and they should allow access >>> after some time. This would increase the journal's prestige and >>> impact factor anyway. >>> All I have is a few old dusty copies of some earth shaking >>> articles for eg Lillehei's original cross circulation paper and >>> Hillel Laks "Laks suture" (fenestrated ASD for Fontan's) etc. I >>> hold on to these. >>> Then there is a thing called Amedeo which sends interesting >>> articles (the titles and links to PUBMED) weekly which I find >>> useful and PUBMED is great for doing literature searches. >>> >>> I remember taking around 50 disks of Silver Platter and searching >>> Index Medicus or worse the huge bound Journals of Index Medicus >>> that I had to wade through when I did my MS(Gen surg) and MCh >>> (Thoracic) degrees. I had to wear a mask and cap while I rummaged >>> through all those books. My MS thesis was on gall stones and >>> since I read every reference that I quoted, I was searching in >>> the really old archived section of Grant Medical College (which >>> is around 170 years old and so had most of the really old >>> journals). Since photocopying was not very prevalent and >>> expensive , most of these used to be read and the article >>> summarized in a note book.I used to have a carbon paper copy of >>> each page while writing. Writing a thesis was actually involving >>> cut and paste (we used to write it in sections and then actually >>> cut out portions and paste them on sheets) -I still remember >>> Jimmy Carter getting one of the original word processors >>> (basically what we could call as an electronic typewriter) and >>> when I saw my first one. I said Wow it can justify edges and we >>> can correct the lines prior to typing using a preview option. My >>> first thesis was written when I was doing my MBBS - (I had got a >>> research grant as a first year medical student - a rare thing in >>> India those days) and typing on a manual typewriter was such a >>> pain and getting some one to type who could understand medical >>> terminology was a bigger pain !! At that time photocopying was >>> such a laborious process (I am sure many would remember the old >>> manual photocopiers involving a frame with toner that used to be >>> shaked and the margins of the photocopier surface had to be wiped >>> etc) Writing it down was easier !! >>> The final indexing was a tremendous pain invovling flash cards >>> and indexing cards !! >>> Today we can do it all in a click of a button !!! >>> Dr Frater could probably tell about his tribulations in his time !! >>> Prasanna >>> Michael Firstenberg wrote: >>>> I used to like the idea of entire bookselves filled with >>>> Journals - now they just take up tons of space. Since, for the >>>> most part the internet and PDF access (at least to recent stuff) >>>> is easy - does anyone keep this stuff anymore? if so why? >>>> >>>> Am I just being sentimental for the old days? >>>> >>>> >>>> -michael >>>> >>>> >>>> HAPPY NEW YEAR to all >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> OpenHeart-L mailing list >>>> >>>> Send postings to: >>>> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >>>> >>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >>>> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l >>>> >>>> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >>>> policies anddisclaimers posted at: >>>> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >>>> ----------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> --No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>>> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.1/611 - Release Date: >>>> 12/31/2006 12:47 PM >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OpenHeart-L mailing list >>> >>> Send postings to: >>> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >>> >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >>> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l >>> >>> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >>> policies and disclaimers posted at: >>> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >>> ----------------------------------------- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OpenHeart-L mailing list >> >> Send postings to: >> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >> >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l >> >> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >> policies anddisclaimers posted at: >> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >> ----------------------------------------- >> > _______________________________________________ > OpenHeart-L mailing list > > Send postings to: > OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: > http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l > > All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the > policies and disclaimers posted at: > http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim > ----------------------------------------- From prasannasimha at gmail.com Mon Jan 1 20:29:53 2007 From: prasannasimha at gmail.com (prasannasimha) Date: Mon Jan 1 10:07:11 2007 Subject: [HSF] Paper Journals in an Internet age. In-Reply-To: <8C9CA4B1-D5A3-461B-ADB4-2262D4C7825C@gmail.com> References: <4598956B.8050401@gmail.com> <17F52111-E2F3-49D4-B4A3-6D12105DCD80@gmail.com> <459917BA.7020808@gmail.com> <8C9CA4B1-D5A3-461B-ADB4-2262D4C7825C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <459921E9.9090200@gmail.com> Add to the list French correction by Carpentier Cleveland Clinics IMA paper. Now who can get hold an scan me Gibbon's paper ????? That is one of the most difficult to get your hands on !! A nondescript unheard of before journal !!! Prasanna Michael Firstenberg wrote: > Prasanna - > > That would be great! > We clearly need something like "Most Important Papers....." > Not sure what the copyright issues would be, but would be nice to post > them on the Wiki (or some other source?) > > GET TO WORK on scanning! > Or you could just tease us - like one per week and we can have an old > fashion journal club discussion on each one - like why it was so > important and how things have change - like they say about those that > dont learn from their past. > > I have a senior surgeon/mentor at work who does not operate anymore - > more of a father figure to us all - and I want his help on a similar > project. > > > -michael > On Jan 1, 2007, at 9:16 AM, prasannasimha wrote: > >> I am trying to do some but have to get the time and teh Mood !! If >> some one can send me some of these important ones like Gibbon's >> original paper which was impossible for me to get hands on we could >> make one large collection of the "Most Important papers in Cardiac >> surgery". >> If we could agree to a list of 50 most important papers we could try >> to collect them and make them into one large PDF with a brief write >> up of them and why they were so important. >> For starters >> Alexis Carrel's vascular suture paper. >> Jay Macleans paper on Heparin >> Gibbons' original paper >> Bigelow's work on hypothermia with ennis first clinical attempt. >> Andreas and Watson's controlled cross circulation (Paper I never got >> to see) >> Lillehei's controlled cross circulation. >> Kirklin's initial series. >> Bharati and Lev's paper on the conduction system in relation to VSD's >> Jatenes original paper on the arterial switch >> Fontan's original paper >> Zuhdi et al paper on hemodilution with the paper by Cooley added to it. >> Castaneda's paper on neonatal correction. >> Horiuchi's paper of circulatory arrest with the subsequent paper by >> Barret Boyes. >> Debakey and Cooley's paper on aortic arch aneurysm's >> Laks stitch for controllable ASD >> Kantrowitz's paper on IABP. >> >> That is an initial list off hand. >> >> Prasanna >> >> >> >> >> Michael Firstenberg wrote: >>> Ahhh, those where the days - I remember using some online reference >>> systems and thinking wow, this is great. >>> >>> Prasanna - what would it take to get some copies of some of those >>> early papers? (ie scanned PDFs?) >>> >>> -michael >>> >>> >>> On Jan 1, 2007, at 12:00 AM, prasannasimha wrote: >>> >>>> For me it is very plain and simple. If I were to subscribe to ATS, >>>> JTCVS and EJTCVS, I would have to spend nearly Rs 10,000/= approx >>>> per month and that is impossible for me. So I rely on the Hospital >>>> Library which gets journals at its own time depending on >>>> subscriptions and vagaries of airmail. We have a thing called >>>> Helinet.This is a system where our hospital subscribes via our >>>> Health university (we have a single university for all medical >>>> colleges in Karnataka state) to an Internet based service called >>>> HELINET through which we can access certain journals via things >>>> like science direct , Ovid etc but unfortunately the only cardiac >>>> surgery journal is ATS and that too its payment (and hence access) >>>> is a bit erratic. I usually get articles of interest via many kind >>>> souls who send them over to me when I ask via email and I >>>> acknowledge their altruism in helping me out. There are many >>>> journals that are free after varying amounts of time. I can get >>>> access say after 6 months or a year and some are free access for >>>> India (for Eg Lancet / NEJM etc). Unfortunately the free access >>>> system (after a period of time) does not exist for cardiac surgical >>>> journals except a couple. >>>> The whole process of journal writing etc are to allow dissemination >>>> of Knowledge and I cannot see why it has to be locked down after >>>> say 6 months or a year. I appreciate that journal publishing >>>> companies have to make profits but they should allow free access at >>>> least after some time. The contributors and editors have done it >>>> for gratis and they should allow access after some time. This would >>>> increase the journal's prestige and impact factor anyway. >>>> All I have is a few old dusty copies of some earth shaking articles >>>> for eg Lillehei's original cross circulation paper and Hillel Laks >>>> "Laks suture" (fenestrated ASD for Fontan's) etc. I hold on to these. >>>> Then there is a thing called Amedeo which sends interesting >>>> articles (the titles and links to PUBMED) weekly which I find >>>> useful and PUBMED is great for doing literature searches. >>>> >>>> I remember taking around 50 disks of Silver Platter and searching >>>> Index Medicus or worse the huge bound Journals of Index Medicus >>>> that I had to wade through when I did my MS(Gen surg) and >>>> MCh(Thoracic) degrees. I had to wear a mask and cap while I >>>> rummaged through all those books. My MS thesis was on gall stones >>>> and since I read every reference that I quoted, I was searching in >>>> the really old archived section of Grant Medical College (which is >>>> around 170 years old and so had most of the really old journals). >>>> Since photocopying was not very prevalent and expensive , most of >>>> these used to be read and the article summarized in a note book.I >>>> used to have a carbon paper copy of each page while writing. >>>> Writing a thesis was actually involving cut and paste (we used to >>>> write it in sections and then actually cut out portions and paste >>>> them on sheets) -I still remember Jimmy Carter getting one of the >>>> original word processors (basically what we could call as an >>>> electronic typewriter) and when I saw my first one. I said Wow it >>>> can justify edges and we can correct the lines prior to typing >>>> using a preview option. My first thesis was written when I was >>>> doing my MBBS - (I had got a research grant as a first year >>>> medical student - a rare thing in India those days) and typing on a >>>> manual typewriter was such a pain and getting some one to type who >>>> could understand medical terminology was a bigger pain !! At that >>>> time photocopying was such a laborious process (I am sure many >>>> would remember the old manual photocopiers involving a frame with >>>> toner that used to be shaked and the margins of the photocopier >>>> surface had to be wiped etc) Writing it down was easier !! >>>> The final indexing was a tremendous pain invovling flash cards and >>>> indexing cards !! >>>> Today we can do it all in a click of a button !!! >>>> Dr Frater could probably tell about his tribulations in his time !! >>>> Prasanna >>>> Michael Firstenberg wrote: >>>>> I used to like the idea of entire bookselves filled with Journals >>>>> - now they just take up tons of space. Since, for the most part >>>>> the internet and PDF access (at least to recent stuff) is easy - >>>>> does anyone keep this stuff anymore? if so why? >>>>> >>>>> Am I just being sentimental for the old days? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -michael >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> HAPPY NEW YEAR to all >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> OpenHeart-L mailing list >>>>> >>>>> Send postings to: >>>>> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >>>>> >>>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >>>>> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l >>>>> >>>>> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >>>>> policies anddisclaimers posted at: >>>>> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >>>>> ----------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>>>> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.1/611 - Release Date: >>>>> 12/31/2006 12:47 PM >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> OpenHeart-L mailing list >>>> >>>> Send postings to: >>>> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >>>> >>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >>>> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l >>>> >>>> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >>>> policies and disclaimers posted at: >>>> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >>>> ----------------------------------------- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OpenHeart-L mailing list >>> >>> Send postings to: >>> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >>> >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >>> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l >>> >>> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >>> policies anddisclaimers posted at: >>> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >>> ----------------------------------------- >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> OpenHeart-L mailing list >> >> Send postings to: >> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >> >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l >> >> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >> policies and disclaimers posted at: >> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >> ----------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > OpenHeart-L mailing list > > Send postings to: > OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: > http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l > > All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the > policies anddisclaimers posted at: > http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim > ----------------------------------------- > > > --No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.1/611 - Release Date: > 12/31/2006 12:47 PM > > From msfirst at gmail.com Mon Jan 1 10:50:11 2007 From: msfirst at gmail.com (Michael Firstenberg) Date: Mon Jan 1 10:50:35 2007 Subject: [HSF] small Mitral valve In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29BBD238-FEEB-409F-B07B-B94C36B68EA7@gmail.com> During training, I always asked about doing mitral valve work thru the LV - but never saw one or got a good answer. How do you do it? -michael On Dec 30, 2006, at 2:11 PM, Hgrmd@aol.com wrote: > Dear Bob, > It may be easy to do a mitral repair via a left ventriculotomy > while doing > a Dor. However, assuming you are talking about a Devega, it is > the wrong > operation for this type of pathology. MR due to annular > dilatation should be > treated by a full rigid, or semirigid ring. It's been amply > demonstrated that > flexible, posterior repairs do nothing to decrease the septal-lateral > dimension or to prevent further anterior annular dilatation. To > me, the time > required to open and close a left atriotomy is well worth taking > so that a proper > procedure can be carried out. > As long as procedures can be carried out expeditiously, and as > long as > proper attention to myocardial preservation is observed, I try to > do each > procedure as best as it can be done. Avoid shortcuts. An > illustration is the case > I did yesterday. The 64 yo man was Class IV from severe MR and > mod-severe > TR. The coronaries were normal and the EF was 50%. He also had > PAF. The TEE > showed a flail posterior leaflet with normal leaflet thickness. > Intraop, it > looked like fibroelastic deficiency, definitely not Barlowe's. I > resuspended P2 with 4 Goretex neochords and installed a Physio. I > also did a Cryomaze > and repaired the tricuspid valve with an MC3. Coming off, there > was mild MR > with good hemodynamics. I looked at the short axis view and > noticed that the > jet was towards the posterior commissure. It also appeared that the > posterior leaflet was mildly tethered. Obviously, I had made one > set of chords a > little too short. I guarantee that a lot or most surgeons would > have left the > mild MR since the patient looked so good. However, I went back on > and > replaced the set of chords in the posterior papillary muscle. I > also did a > posteromedial commissuroplasty with the "magic" stitch. Additional > clamp time was > exactly 30 minutes. The postop TEE was now perfect with zero MR. > The depth > of closure was 15 mm. I felt much better, and the patient was > fine this AM. > Would he have done as well with the first attempt at repair? > Probably, in > the short term, but data shows even mild MR adversely affects the > 10 year > survival. > Happy New Year to you and yours, > Hal > _______________________________________________ > OpenHeart-L mailing list > > Send postings to: > OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: > http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l > > All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the > policies and > disclaimers posted at: > http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim > ----------------------------------------- From prasannasimha at gmail.com Mon Jan 1 21:37:02 2007 From: prasannasimha at gmail.com (prasannasimha) Date: Mon Jan 1 11:07:32 2007 Subject: [HSF] small Mitral valve In-Reply-To: <29BBD238-FEEB-409F-B07B-B94C36B68EA7@gmail.com> References: <29BBD238-FEEB-409F-B07B-B94C36B68EA7@gmail.com> Message-ID: <459931A6.8010104@gmail.com> It is pretty straight forward doing it through an anterior aneurysm. It is OK for an MVR and a posterior annuloplasty and probably an Alfieri. but frankly nothing like going the conventional way. If you are doing an MVR sutures are placed in the reverse way. Prasanna Michael Firstenberg wrote: > During training, I always asked about doing mitral valve work thru the > LV - but never saw one or got a good answer. How do you do it? > > > -michael > > > > On Dec 30, 2006, at 2:11 PM, Hgrmd@aol.com wrote: > >> Dear Bob, >> It may be easy to do a mitral repair via a left ventriculotomy >> while doing >> a Dor. However, assuming you are talking about a Devega, it is the >> wrong >> operation for this type of pathology. MR due to annular dilatation >> should be >> treated by a full rigid, or semirigid ring. It's been amply >> demonstrated that >> flexible, posterior repairs do nothing to decrease the septal-lateral >> dimension or to prevent further anterior annular dilatation. To me, >> the time >> required to open and close a left atriotomy is well worth taking so >> that a proper >> procedure can be carried out. >> As long as procedures can be carried out expeditiously, and as >> long as >> proper attention to myocardial preservation is observed, I try to do >> each >> procedure as best as it can be done. Avoid shortcuts. An >> illustration is the case >> I did yesterday. The 64 yo man was Class IV from severe MR and >> mod-severe >> TR. The coronaries were normal and the EF was 50%. He also had >> PAF. The TEE >> showed a flail posterior leaflet with normal leaflet thickness. >> Intraop, it >> looked like fibroelastic deficiency, definitely not Barlowe's. I >> resuspended P2 with 4 Goretex neochords and installed a Physio. I >> also did a Cryomaze >> and repaired the tricuspid valve with an MC3. Coming off, there was >> mild MR >> with good hemodynamics. I looked at the short axis view and noticed >> that the >> jet was towards the posterior commissure. It also appeared that the >> posterior leaflet was mildly tethered. Obviously, I had made one >> set of chords a >> little too short. I guarantee that a lot or most surgeons would >> have left the >> mild MR since the patient looked so good. However, I went back on and >> replaced the set of chords in the posterior papillary muscle. I >> also did a >> posteromedial commissuroplasty with the "magic" stitch. Additional >> clamp time was >> exactly 30 minutes. The postop TEE was now perfect with zero MR. >> The depth >> of closure was 15 mm. I felt much better, and the patient was fine >> this AM. >> Would he have done as well with the first attempt at repair? >> Probably, in >> the short term, but data shows even mild MR adversely affects the 10 >> year >> survival. >> Happy New Year to you and yours, >> Hal >> _______________________________________________ >> OpenHeart-L mailing list >> >> Send postings to: >> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >> >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l >> >> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >> policies and >> disclaimers posted at: >> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >> ----------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > OpenHeart-L mailing list > > Send postings to: > OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: > http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l > > All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the > policies anddisclaimers posted at: > http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim > ----------------------------------------- > > > --No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.1/611 - Release Date: > 12/31/2006 12:47 PM > > From TSalerno at med.miami.edu Mon Jan 1 11:40:23 2007 From: TSalerno at med.miami.edu (Salerno, Tomas) Date: Mon Jan 1 11:41:11 2007 Subject: [HSF] small Mitral valve Message-ID: Batista did mitral valve repair and replacement via the left ventricle, after performing left ventriculectomy. MVR is simple if there is no AI, and mitral repair was via Alfieri's repair. Tomas -----Original Message----- From: openheart-l-bounces@lists.hsforum.com [mailto:openheart-l-bounces@lists.hsforum.com] On Behalf Of prasannasimha Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 11:07 AM To: OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com Subject: Re: [HSF] small Mitral valve It is pretty straight forward doing it through an anterior aneurysm. It is OK for an MVR and a posterior annuloplasty and probably an Alfieri. but frankly nothing like going the conventional way. If you are doing an MVR sutures are placed in the reverse way. Prasanna Michael Firstenberg wrote: > During training, I always asked about doing mitral valve work thru the > LV - but never saw one or got a good answer. How do you do it? > > > -michael > > > > On Dec 30, 2006, at 2:11 PM, Hgrmd@aol.com wrote: > >> Dear Bob, >> It may be easy to do a mitral repair via a left ventriculotomy >> while doing >> a Dor. However, assuming you are talking about a Devega, it is the >> wrong >> operation for this type of pathology. MR due to annular dilatation >> should be >> treated by a full rigid, or semirigid ring. It's been amply >> demonstrated that >> flexible, posterior repairs do nothing to decrease the septal-lateral >> dimension or to prevent further anterior annular dilatation. To me, >> the time >> required to open and close a left atriotomy is well worth taking so >> that a proper >> procedure can be carried out. >> As long as procedures can be carried out expeditiously, and as >> long as >> proper attention to myocardial preservation is observed, I try to do >> each >> procedure as best as it can be done. Avoid shortcuts. An >> illustration is the case >> I did yesterday. The 64 yo man was Class IV from severe MR and >> mod-severe >> TR. The coronaries were normal and the EF was 50%. He also had >> PAF. The TEE >> showed a flail posterior leaflet with normal leaflet thickness. >> Intraop, it >> looked like fibroelastic deficiency, definitely not Barlowe's. I >> resuspended P2 with 4 Goretex neochords and installed a Physio. I >> also did a Cryomaze >> and repaired the tricuspid valve with an MC3. Coming off, there was >> mild MR >> with good hemodynamics. I looked at the short axis view and noticed >> that the >> jet was towards the posterior commissure. It also appeared that the >> posterior leaflet was mildly tethered. Obviously, I had made one >> set of chords a >> little too short. I guarantee that a lot or most surgeons would >> have left the >> mild MR since the patient looked so good. However, I went back on and >> replaced the set of chords in the posterior papillary muscle. I >> also did a >> posteromedial commissuroplasty with the "magic" stitch. Additional >> clamp time was >> exactly 30 minutes. The postop TEE was now perfect with zero MR. >> The depth >> of closure was 15 mm. I felt much better, and the patient was fine >> this AM. >> Would he have done as well with the first attempt at repair? >> Probably, in >> the short term, but data shows even mild MR adversely affects the 10 >> year >> survival. >> Happy New Year to you and yours, >> Hal >> _______________________________________________ >> OpenHeart-L mailing list >> >> Send postings to: >> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >> >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l >> >> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >> policies and >> disclaimers posted at: >> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >> ----------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > OpenHeart-L mailing list > > Send postings to: > OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: > http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l > > All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the > policies anddisclaimers posted at: > http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim > ----------------------------------------- > > > --No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.1/611 - Release Date: > 12/31/2006 12:47 PM > > _______________________________________________ OpenHeart-L mailing list Send postings to: OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the policies and disclaimers posted at: http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim ----------------------------------------- From Rwmfglycar at aol.com Mon Jan 1 12:17:22 2007 From: Rwmfglycar at aol.com (Rwmfglycar@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 1 12:21:39 2007 Subject: AW: [HSF] Axillary artery cannulation, why with prosthesis? Message-ID: <4be.f1001de.32ca9c22@aol.com> In a message dated 1/1/2007 1:14:28 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, tacuff@swbell.net writes: My senior partner since retired told me long ago that a graft sown to the aorta was the standard cannulation in Dallas when he got here in the seventies. Comments from those that practiced then? Tea In the first extracorporeal cases that I saw we used subclavian cannulation (we were working through bilateral anterior thoracotomies). The cannula was short (about 3 cm) and because it was made of steel had a very good internal versus external diameter ratio. This combination made for very low resistance. When we switched to median sternotomy and femoral cannulation the femoral cannulae were on the same principle. When I started my own cases in 1962 I had decided that my alma mater was wrong about what constituted adequate bypass flow (1.8 to 2.2 liters/min/ m2) and tried always to flow at 2.5 - 3.0 l/min/m2. When we started to do smaller and smaller infants, cannulae on this principle were excellent for allowing proper flows. For me this was essential since I was never happy with the idea that long periods of absent circulation were OK for the brain. The plastic cannulae that came along later did not have nearly as good an internal to external diameter ratio and were mostly substantially longer. By the way I think a line from the pump directly connected to a short 8mm graft is an excellent form of arterial cannulation, I have not mentioned the labor involved in cleaning the reusable cannulae, not to mention the screens or discs, Bob From grescigno at mac.com Mon Jan 1 09:51:22 2007 From: grescigno at mac.com (Giuseppe Rescigno) Date: Mon Jan 1 12:51:54 2007 Subject: [HSF] Paper Journals in an Internet age. In-Reply-To: <459921E9.9090200@gmail.com> References: <4598956B.8050401@gmail.com> <17F52111-E2F3-49D4-B4A3-6D12105DCD80@gmail.com> <459917BA.7020808@gmail.com> <8C9CA4B1-D5A3-461B-ADB4-2262D4C7825C@gmail.com> <459921E9.9090200@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7FEFBCDE-010F-1000-8122-FA357BB549AD-Webmail-10019@mac.com> I agree that the paper journals are actually useless. So why I have to pay more than 300 dollars to get the JTCVS in Italy? I think that there should be a different subscription rate if you prefer to have access to the Journal just by the internet. We are wasting a lot of paper (trees), airplane fuel etc. It would be interesting to present this idea to the Editor as a HSF group. Giuseppe Giuseppe Rescigno M.D. Cardiothoracic Surgeon Lancisi Hospital Torrette - Ancona Italy On Monday, January 01, 2007, at 04:08PM, "prasannasimha" wrote: >Add to the list >French correction by Carpentier >Cleveland Clinics IMA paper. > >Now who can get hold an scan me Gibbon's paper ????? >That is one of the most difficult to get your hands on !! >A nondescript unheard of before journal !!! >Prasanna >Michael Firstenberg wrote: >> Prasanna - >> >> That would be great! >> We clearly need something like "Most Important Papers....." >> Not sure what the copyright issues would be, but would be nice to post >> them on the Wiki (or some other source?) >> >> GET TO WORK on scanning! >> Or you could just tease us - like one per week and we can have an old >> fashion journal club discussion on each one - like why it was so >> important and how things have change - like they say about those that >> dont learn from their past. >> >> I have a senior surgeon/mentor at work who does not operate anymore - >> more of a father figure to us all - and I want his help on a similar >> project. >> >> >> -michael >> On Jan 1, 2007, at 9:16 AM, prasannasimha wrote: >> >>> I am trying to do some but have to get the time and teh Mood !! If >>> some one can send me some of these important ones like Gibbon's >>> original paper which was impossible for me to get hands on we could >>> make one large collection of the "Most Important papers in Cardiac >>> surgery". >>> If we could agree to a list of 50 most important papers we could try >>> to collect them and make them into one large PDF with a brief write >>> up of them and why they were so important. >>> For starters >>> Alexis Carrel's vascular suture paper. >>> Jay Macleans paper on Heparin >>> Gibbons' original paper >>> Bigelow's work on hypothermia with ennis first clinical attempt. >>> Andreas and Watson's controlled cross circulation (Paper I never got >>> to see) >>> Lillehei's controlled cross circulation. >>> Kirklin's initial series. >>> Bharati and Lev's paper on the conduction system in relation to VSD's >>> Jatenes original paper on the arterial switch >>> Fontan's original paper >>> Zuhdi et al paper on hemodilution with the paper by Cooley added to it. >>> Castaneda's paper on neonatal correction. >>> Horiuchi's paper of circulatory arrest with the subsequent paper by >>> Barret Boyes. >>> Debakey and Cooley's paper on aortic arch aneurysm's >>> Laks stitch for controllable ASD >>> Kantrowitz's paper on IABP. >>> >>> That is an initial list off hand. >>> >>> Prasanna >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Michael Firstenberg wrote: >>>> Ahhh, those where the days - I remember using some online reference >>>> systems and thinking wow, this is great. >>>> >>>> Prasanna - what would it take to get some copies of some of those >>>> early papers? (ie scanned PDFs?) >>>> >>>> -michael >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jan 1, 2007, at 12:00 AM, prasannasimha wrote: >>>> >>>>> For me it is very plain and simple. If I were to subscribe to ATS, >>>>> JTCVS and EJTCVS, I would have to spend nearly Rs 10,000/= approx >>>>> per month and that is impossible for me. So I rely on the Hospital >>>>> Library which gets journals at its own time depending on >>>>> subscriptions and vagaries of airmail. We have a thing called >>>>> Helinet.This is a system where our hospital subscribes via our >>>>> Health university (we have a single university for all medical >>>>> colleges in Karnataka state) to an Internet based service called >>>>> HELINET through which we can access certain journals via things >>>>> like science direct , Ovid etc but unfortunately the only cardiac >>>>> surgery journal is ATS and that too its payment (and hence access) >>>>> is a bit erratic. I usually get articles of interest via many kind >>>>> souls who send them over to me when I ask via email and I >>>>> acknowledge their altruism in helping me out. There are many >>>>> journals that are free after varying amounts of time. I can get >>>>> access say after 6 months or a year and some are free access for >>>>> India (for Eg Lancet / NEJM etc). Unfortunately the free access >>>>> system (after a period of time) does not exist for cardiac surgical >>>>> journals except a couple. >>>>> The whole process of journal writing etc are to allow dissemination >>>>> of Knowledge and I cannot see why it has to be locked down after >>>>> say 6 months or a year. I appreciate that journal publishing >>>>> companies have to make profits but they should allow free access at >>>>> least after some time. The contributors and editors have done it >>>>> for gratis and they should allow access after some time. This would >>>>> increase the journal's prestige and impact factor anyway. >>>>> All I have is a few old dusty copies of some earth shaking articles >>>>> for eg Lillehei's original cross circulation paper and Hillel Laks >>>>> "Laks suture" (fenestrated ASD for Fontan's) etc. I hold on to these. >>>>> Then there is a thing called Amedeo which sends interesting >>>>> articles (the titles and links to PUBMED) weekly which I find >>>>> useful and PUBMED is great for doing literature searches. >>>>> >>>>> I remember taking around 50 disks of Silver Platter and searching >>>>> Index Medicus or worse the huge bound Journals of Index Medicus >>>>> that I had to wade through when I did my MS(Gen surg) and >>>>> MCh(Thoracic) degrees. I had to wear a mask and cap while I >>>>> rummaged through all those books. My MS thesis was on gall stones >>>>> and since I read every reference that I quoted, I was searching in >>>>> the really old archived section of Grant Medical College (which is >>>>> around 170 years old and so had most of the really old journals). >>>>> Since photocopying was not very prevalent and expensive , most of >>>>> these used to be read and the article summarized in a note book.I >>>>> used to have a carbon paper copy of each page while writing. >>>>> Writing a thesis was actually involving cut and paste (we used to >>>>> write it in sections and then actually cut out portions and paste >>>>> them on sheets) -I still remember Jimmy Carter getting one of the >>>>> original word processors (basically what we could call as an >>>>> electronic typewriter) and when I saw my first one. I said Wow it >>>>> can justify edges and we can correct the lines prior to typing >>>>> using a preview option. My first thesis was written when I was >>>>> doing my MBBS - (I had got a research grant as a first year >>>>> medical student - a rare thing in India those days) and typing on a >>>>> manual typewriter was such a pain and getting some one to type who >>>>> could understand medical terminology was a bigger pain !! At that >>>>> time photocopying was such a laborious process (I am sure many >>>>> would remember the old manual photocopiers involving a frame with >>>>> toner that used to be shaked and the margins of the photocopier >>>>> surface had to be wiped etc) Writing it down was easier !! >>>>> The final indexing was a tremendous pain invovling flash cards and >>>>> indexing cards !! >>>>> Today we can do it all in a click of a button !!! >>>>> Dr Frater could probably tell about his tribulations in his time !! >>>>> Prasanna >>>>> Michael Firstenberg wrote: >>>>>> I used to like the idea of entire bookselves filled with Journals >>>>>> - now they just take up tons of space. Since, for the most part >>>>>> the internet and PDF access (at least to recent stuff) is easy - >>>>>> does anyone keep this stuff anymore? if so why? >>>>>> >>>>>> Am I just being sentimental for the old days? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -michael >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> HAPPY NEW YEAR to all >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> OpenHeart-L mailing list >>>>>> >>>>>> Send postings to: >>>>>> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >>>>>> >>>>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >>>>>> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l >>>>>> >>>>>> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >>>>>> policies anddisclaimers posted at: >>>>>> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >>>>>> ----------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>>>>> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.1/611 - Release Date: >>>>>> 12/31/2006 12:47 PM >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> OpenHeart-L mailing list >>>>> >>>>> Send postings to: >>>>> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >>>>> >>>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >>>>> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l >>>>> >>>>> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >>>>> policies and disclaimers posted at: >>>>> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >>>>> ----------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> OpenHeart-L mailing list >>>> >>>> Send postings to: >>>> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >>>> >>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >>>> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l >>>> >>>> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >>>> policies anddisclaimers posted at: >>>> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >>>> ----------------------------------------- >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OpenHeart-L mailing list >>> >>> Send postings to: >>> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >>> >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >>> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l >>> >>> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >>> policies and disclaimers posted at: >>> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >>> ----------------------------------------- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OpenHeart-L mailing list >> >> Send postings to: >> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >> >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l >> >> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >> policies anddisclaimers posted at: >> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >> ----------------------------------------- >> >> >> --No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.1/611 - Release Date: >> 12/31/2006 12:47 PM >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >OpenHeart-L mailing list > >Send postings to: > OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com > >To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l > >All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the policies and >disclaimers posted at: >http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >----------------------------------------- > > From prasannasimha at gmail.com Mon Jan 1 23:25:44 2007 From: prasannasimha at gmail.com (prasannasimha) Date: Mon Jan 1 12:56:12 2007 Subject: [HSF] Gibbon's paper Message-ID: <45994B20.1080006@gmail.com> Does anyone have a photocopy of Gibbon's original paper / Prasanna From Michael.Crittenden at va.gov Mon Jan 1 14:06:30 2007 From: Michael.Crittenden at va.gov (Crittenden, Michael) Date: Mon Jan 1 14:06:59 2007 Subject: [HSF] Gibbon's paper In-Reply-To: <45994B20.1080006@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4130F1CC8938984AA557B3A0CB875D6601571D28@VHAV01MSGA1.v01.med.va.gov> Are you looking for the one from Minn Med? -----Original Message----- From: openheart-l-bounces@lists.hsforum.com [mailto:openheart-l-bounces@lists.hsforum.com] On Behalf Of prasannasimha Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 12:56 PM To: OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com Subject: [HSF] Gibbon's paper Does anyone have a photocopy of Gibbon's original paper / Prasanna _______________________________________________ OpenHeart-L mailing list Send postings to: OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the policies and disclaimers posted at: http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim ----------------------------------------- From Hgrmd at aol.com Mon Jan 1 15:45:20 2007 From: Hgrmd at aol.com (Hgrmd@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 1 15:45:59 2007 Subject: [HSF] small Mitral valve Message-ID: Tomas, What followup, if any, was there for Batista's ventricular side Alfieri repairs? In all series that I've seen, including Alfieri's, this type of repair without an accompanying ring has terrible long term results. In Alfieri's large series, over 60% had moderate or worse MR at the end of 2 years. If I had those kinds of results, I wouldn't have a significant mitral practice. Why do a procedure that has no demonstrable long term track record? The correct approach to this problem is transatrial insertion of a full rigid or semirigid ring. Flexible bands, flexible rings, Devegas, and unsupported Alfieri's all have poor long term performance according to what I've read in the literature as well as my own personal experience (Many years ago, I saw Cosgroves inserted for pure annular dilatation fail within a few months). If it exists, somebody please show me a reference that demonstrates the long term durability of a mitral repair done via a left ventriculotomy. Hal From anianyanwu at hotmail.com Mon Jan 1 15:52:41 2007 From: anianyanwu at hotmail.com (Ani Anyanwu) Date: Mon Jan 1 15:53:22 2007 Subject: [HSF] Paper Journals in an Internet age. References: <4598956B.8050401@gmail.com><17F52111-E2F3-49D4-B4A3-6D12105DCD80@gmail.com><459917BA.7020808@gmail.com><8C9CA4B1-D5A3-461B-ADB4-2262D4C7825C@gmail.com><459921E9.9090200@gmail.com> <7FEFBCDE-010F-1000-8122-FA357BB549AD-Webmail-10019@mac.com> Message-ID: There is one advantage of the paper journal - they serve as reading material rather than reference sources. Imagine if the New York Times, Le Monde, Time etc were only electronic, how many of the articles would actually get read? As of now we tend still to read paper rather than electronic material - this may change in future. The net result with electronic reading source is we tend to read only materials that interest us, or more specifically we do searches on the internet and seek what we specifically are interested in. I think there is a role for some paper journals. For example I get the paper British Medical Journal every week - this is the only way I keep abreast of what is happening in medicine and a reminder that I am a doctor, and not just a cardiac surgeon. When I got paper annals, I often browsed through the occasional general thoracic or congenital paper, but now I rely on electronic only, I barely even read cardiac papers that do not interest me. I suspect that if newspapers were all electronic, the world would be as more ignorant place - how many people read editorials and letters online? Ani ----- Original Message ----- From: Giuseppe Rescigno To: OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 12:51 PM Subject: Re: [HSF] Paper Journals in an Internet age. I agree that the paper journals are actually useless. So why I have to pay more than 300 dollars to get the JTCVS in Italy? I think that there should be a different subscription rate if you prefer to have access to the Journal just by the internet. We are wasting a lot of paper (trees), airplane fuel etc. It would be interesting to present this idea to the Editor as a HSF group. Giuseppe Giuseppe Rescigno M.D. Cardiothoracic Surgeon Lancisi Hospital Torrette - Ancona Italy On Monday, January 01, 2007, at 04:08PM, "prasannasimha" > wrote: >Add to the list >French correction by Carpentier >Cleveland Clinics IMA paper. > >Now who can get hold an scan me Gibbon's paper ????? >That is one of the most difficult to get your hands on !! >A nondescript unheard of before journal !!! >Prasanna >Michael Firstenberg wrote: >> Prasanna - >> >> That would be great! >> We clearly need something like "Most Important Papers....." >> Not sure what the copyright issues would be, but would be nice to post >> them on the Wiki (or some other source?) >> >> GET TO WORK on scanning! >> Or you could just tease us - like one per week and we can have an old >> fashion journal club discussion on each one - like why it was so >> important and how things have change - like they say about those that >> dont learn from their past. >> >> I have a senior surgeon/mentor at work who does not operate anymore - >> more of a father figure to us all - and I want his help on a similar >> project. >> >> >> -michael >> On Jan 1, 2007, at 9:16 AM, prasannasimha wrote: >> >>> I am trying to do some but have to get the time and teh Mood !! If >>> some one can send me some of these important ones like Gibbon's >>> original paper which was impossible for me to get hands on we could >>> make one large collection of the "Most Important papers in Cardiac >>> surgery". >>> If we could agree to a list of 50 most important papers we could try >>> to collect them and make them into one large PDF with a brief write >>> up of them and why they were so important. >>> For starters >>> Alexis Carrel's vascular suture paper. >>> Jay Macleans paper on Heparin >>> Gibbons' original paper >>> Bigelow's work on hypothermia with ennis first clinical attempt. >>> Andreas and Watson's controlled cross circulation (Paper I never got >>> to see) >>> Lillehei's controlled cross circulation. >>> Kirklin's initial series. >>> Bharati and Lev's paper on the conduction system in relation to VSD's >>> Jatenes original paper on the arterial switch >>> Fontan's original paper >>> Zuhdi et al paper on hemodilution with the paper by Cooley added to it. >>> Castaneda's paper on neonatal correction. >>> Horiuchi's paper of circulatory arrest with the subsequent paper by >>> Barret Boyes. >>> Debakey and Cooley's paper on aortic arch aneurysm's >>> Laks stitch for controllable ASD >>> Kantrowitz's paper on IABP. >>> >>> That is an initial list off hand. >>> >>> Prasanna >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Michael Firstenberg wrote: >>>> Ahhh, those where the days - I remember using some online reference >>>> systems and thinking wow, this is great. >>>> >>>> Prasanna - what would it take to get some copies of some of those >>>> early papers? (ie scanned PDFs?) >>>> >>>> -michael >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jan 1, 2007, at 12:00 AM, prasannasimha wrote: >>>> >>>>> For me it is very plain and simple. If I were to subscribe to ATS, >>>>> JTCVS and EJTCVS, I would have to spend nearly Rs 10,000/= approx >>>>> per month and that is impossible for me. So I rely on the Hospital >>>>> Library which gets journals at its own time depending on >>>>> subscriptions and vagaries of airmail. We have a thing called >>>>> Helinet.This is a system where our hospital subscribes via our >>>>> Health university (we have a single university for all medical >>>>> colleges in Karnataka state) to an Internet based service called >>>>> HELINET through which we can access certain journals via things >>>>> like science direct , Ovid etc but unfortunately the only cardiac >>>>> surgery journal is ATS and that too its payment (and hence access) >>>>> is a bit erratic. I usually get articles of interest via many kind >>>>> souls who send them over to me when I ask via email and I >>>>> acknowledge their altruism in helping me out. There are many >>>>> journals that are free after varying amounts of time. I can get >>>>> access say after 6 months or a year and some are free access for >>>>> India (for Eg Lancet / NEJM etc). Unfortunately the free access >>>>> system (after a period of time) does not exist for cardiac surgical >>>>> journals except a couple. >>>>> The whole process of journal writing etc are to allow dissemination >>>>> of Knowledge and I cannot see why it has to be locked down after >>>>> say 6 months or a year. I appreciate that journal publishing >>>>> companies have to make profits but they should allow free access at >>>>> least after some time. The contributors and editors have done it >>>>> for gratis and they should allow access after some time. This would >>>>> increase the journal's prestige and impact factor anyway. >>>>> All I have is a few old dusty copies of some earth shaking articles >>>>> for eg Lillehei's original cross circulation paper and Hillel Laks >>>>> "Laks suture" (fenestrated ASD for Fontan's) etc. I hold on to these. >>>>> Then there is a thing called Amedeo which sends interesting >>>>> articles (the titles and links to PUBMED) weekly which I find >>>>> useful and PUBMED is great for doing literature searches. >>>>> >>>>> I remember taking around 50 disks of Silver Platter and searching >>>>> Index Medicus or worse the huge bound Journals of Index Medicus >>>>> that I had to wade through when I did my MS(Gen surg) and >>>>> MCh(Thoracic) degrees. I had to wear a mask and cap while I >>>>> rummaged through all those books. My MS thesis was on gall stones >>>>> and since I read every reference that I quoted, I was searching in >>>>> the really old archived section of Grant Medical College (which is >>>>> around 170 years old and so had most of the really old journals). >>>>> Since photocopying was not very prevalent and expensive , most of >>>>> these used to be read and the article summarized in a note book.I >>>>> used to have a carbon paper copy of each page while writing. >>>>> Writing a thesis was actually involving cut and paste (we used to >>>>> write it in sections and then actually cut out portions and paste >>>>> them on sheets) -I still remember Jimmy Carter getting one of the >>>>> original word processors (basically what we could call as an >>>>> electronic typewriter) and when I saw my first one. I said Wow it >>>>> can justify edges and we can correct the lines prior to typing >>>>> using a preview option. My first thesis was written when I was >>>>> doing my MBBS - (I had got a research grant as a first year >>>>> medical student - a rare thing in India those days) and typing on a >>>>> manual typewriter was such a pain and getting some one to type who >>>>> could understand medical terminology was a bigger pain !! At that >>>>> time photocopying was such a laborious process (I am sure many >>>>> would remember the old manual photocopiers involving a frame with >>>>> toner that used to be shaked and the margins of the photocopier >>>>> surface had to be wiped etc) Writing it down was easier !! >>>>> The final indexing was a tremendous pain invovling flash cards and >>>>> indexing cards !! >>>>> Today we can do it all in a click of a button !!! >>>>> Dr Frater could probably tell about his tribulations in his time !! >>>>> Prasanna >>>>> Michael Firstenberg wrote: >>>>>> I used to like the idea of entire bookselves filled with Journals >>>>>> - now they just take up tons of space. Since, for the most part >>>>>> the internet and PDF access (at least to recent stuff) is easy - >>>>>> does anyone keep this stuff anymore? if so why? >>>>>> >>>>>> Am I just being sentimental for the old days? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -michael >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> HAPPY NEW YEAR to all >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> OpenHeart-L mailing list >>>>>> >>>>>> Send postings to: >>>>>> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >>>>>> >>>>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >>>>>> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l >>>>>> >>>>>> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >>>>>> policies anddisclaimers posted at: >>>>>> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >>>>>> ----------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>>>>> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.1/611 - Release Date: >>>>>> 12/31/2006 12:47 PM >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> OpenHeart-L mailing list >>>>> >>>>> Send postings to: >>>>> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >>>>> >>>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >>>>> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l >>>>> >>>>> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >>>>> policies and disclaimers posted at: >>>>> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >>>>> ----------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> OpenHeart-L mailing list >>>> >>>> Send postings to: >>>> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >>>> >>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >>>> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l >>>> >>>> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >>>> policies anddisclaimers posted at: >>>> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >>>> ----------------------------------------- >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OpenHeart-L mailing list >>> >>> Send postings to: >>> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >>> >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >>> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l >>> >>> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >>> policies and disclaimers posted at: >>> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >>> ----------------------------------------- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OpenHeart-L mailing list >> >> Send postings to: >> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >> >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l >> >> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >> policies anddisclaimers posted at: >> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >> ----------------------------------------- >> >> >> --No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.1/611 - Release Date: >> 12/31/2006 12:47 PM >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >OpenHeart-L mailing list > >Send postings to: > OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com > >To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l > >All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the policies and >disclaimers posted at: >http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >----------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ OpenHeart-L mailing list Send postings to: OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the policies and disclaimers posted at: http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim ----------------------------------------- From Hgrmd at aol.com Mon Jan 1 16:03:58 2007 From: Hgrmd at aol.com (Hgrmd@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 1 16:05:48 2007 Subject: [HSF] Paper Journals in an Internet age. Message-ID: Ani, I agree with you. However, as far as keeping journals for future reference, how many do you actually go back and reread? Is it worth keeping all that shelf space for just a few articles that are valuable to you? I think the best method is to continue to read the journals, and then throw them away in a few months. Future reference back to articles of interest can be done electronically as long as you are up to date on your subscription fees. Very little in life is free (except for the joy of hanging around in the cath lab hoping for a case). Those who want journal articles for free are not really being fair to the companies that rely on the subscriptions to pay their employees and bills. Hal From benjamin.bidstrup at bigpond.com Tue Jan 2 09:35:09 2007 From: benjamin.bidstrup at bigpond.com (Ben Bidstrup) Date: Mon Jan 1 17:35:49 2007 Subject: [HSF] Paper Journals in an Internet age. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I feel that about 1-2 years is more than enough. If you are inclined to go back earlier then you will be looking for a specific article and electronic is OK. The idea of an historical collection is very good. I am sure the publishers will be amenable to it if we put it up as non-commercial. Steve Westaby's book will have most of the references and it is a matter of digging them up. Why don't we make it the top 100 historical references? This will make it manageable. >Ani, > I agree with you. However, as far as keeping journals for future >reference, how many do you actually go back and reread? Is it worth >keeping all that >shelf space for just a few articles that are valuable to you? I think the >best method is to continue to read the journals, and then throw >them away in a >few months. Future reference back to articles of interest can be done >electronically as long as you are up to date on your subscription fees. Very >little in life is free (except for the joy of hanging around in the cath lab >hoping for a case). Those who want journal articles for free are not really >being fair to the companies that rely on the subscriptions to pay >their employees >and bills. >Hal >_______________________________________________ >OpenHeart-L mailing list > >Send postings to: > OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com > >To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l > >All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the policies and >disclaimers posted at: >http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim >----------------------------------------- -- Ben Bidstrup FRACS FRCSEd FEBCTS Consultant Cardiothoracic Surgeon From msfirst at gmail.com Mon Jan 1 18:09:11 2007 From: msfirst at gmail.com (Michael Firstenberg) Date: Mon Jan 1 18:09:33 2007 Subject: [HSF] Paper Journals in an Internet age. In-Reply-To: References: <4598956B.8050401@gmail.com><17F52111-E2F3-49D4-B4A3-6D12105DCD80@gmail.com><459917BA.7020808@gmail.com><8C9CA4B1-D5A3-461B-ADB4-2262D4C7825C@gmail.com><459921E9.9090200@gmail.com> <7FEFBCDE-010F-1000-8122-FA357BB549AD-Webmail-10019@mac.com> Message-ID: agree - but do you keep any of the paper Journal? I cant stand reading stuff on-line and granted it is a waste of paper - I usually print out anything that interests me. (and of course, the next question is if you research a particular topic - do you keep that also?) -michael On Jan 1, 2007, at 3:52 PM, Ani Anyanwu wrote: > There is one advantage of the paper journal - they serve as reading > material rather than reference sources. Imagine if the New York > Times, Le Monde, Time etc were only electronic, how many of the > articles would actually get read? As of now we tend still to read > paper rather than electronic material - this may change in future. > The net result with electronic reading source is we tend to read > only materials that interest us, or more specifically we do > searches on the internet and seek what we specifically are > interested in. > > I think there is a role for some paper journals. For example I get > the paper British Medical Journal every week - this is the only way > I keep abreast of what is happening in medicine and a reminder that > I am a doctor, and not just a cardiac surgeon. When I got paper > annals, I often browsed through the occasional general thoracic or > congenital paper, but now I rely on electronic only, I barely even > read cardiac papers that do not interest me. I suspect that if > newspapers were all electronic, the world would be as more ignorant > place - how many people read editorials and letters online? > > Ani > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Giuseppe Rescigno > To: OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com L@lists.hsforum.com> > Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 12:51 PM > Subject: Re: [HSF] Paper Journals in an Internet age. > > > I agree that the paper journals are actually useless. So why I > have to pay more than 300 dollars to get the JTCVS in Italy? I > think that there should be a different subscription rate if you > prefer to have access to the Journal just by the internet. We are > wasting a lot of paper (trees), airplane fuel etc. It would be > interesting to present this idea to the Editor as a HSF group. > > Giuseppe > > > > Giuseppe Rescigno M.D. > Cardiothoracic Surgeon > > Lancisi Hospital > Torrette - Ancona > Italy > > > > On Monday, January 01, 2007, at 04:08PM, "prasannasimha" > > wrote: >> Add to the list >> French correction by Carpentier >> Cleveland Clinics IMA paper. >> >> Now who can get hold an scan me Gibbon's paper ????? >> That is one of the most difficult to get your hands on !! >> A nondescript unheard of before journal !!! >> Prasanna >> Michael Firstenberg wrote: >>> Prasanna - >>> >>> That would be great! >>> We clearly need something like "Most Important Papers....." >>> Not sure what the copyright issues would be, but would be nice to >>> post >>> them on the Wiki (or some other source?) >>> >>> GET TO WORK on scanning! >>> Or you could just tease us - like one per week and we can have an >>> old >>> fashion journal club discussion on each one - like why it was so >>> important and how things have change - like they say about those >>> that >>> dont learn from their past. >>> >>> I have a senior surgeon/mentor at work who does not operate >>> anymore - >>> more of a father figure to us all - and I want his help on a similar >>> project. >>> >>> >>> -michael >>> On Jan 1, 2007, at 9:16 AM, prasannasimha wrote: >>> >>>> I am trying to do some but have to get the time and teh Mood !! If >>>> some one can send me some of these important ones like Gibbon's >>>> original paper which was impossible for me to get hands on we could >>>> make one large collection of the "Most Important papers in Cardiac >>>> surgery". >>>> If we could agree to a list of 50 most important papers we could >>>> try >>>> to collect them and make them into one large PDF with a brief write >>>> up of them and why they were so important. >>>> For starters >>>> Alexis Carrel's vascular suture paper. >>>> Jay Macleans paper on Heparin >>>> Gibbons' original paper >>>> Bigelow's work on hypothermia with ennis first clinical attempt. >>>> Andreas and Watson's controlled cross circulation (Paper I never >>>> got >>>> to see) >>>> Lillehei's controlled cross circulation. >>>> Kirklin's initial series. >>>> Bharati and Lev's paper on the conduction system in relation to >>>> VSD's >>>> Jatenes original paper on the arterial switch >>>> Fontan's original paper >>>> Zuhdi et al paper on hemodilution with the paper by Cooley >>>> added to it. >>>> Castaneda's paper on neonatal correction. >>>> Horiuchi's paper of circulatory arrest with the subsequent paper by >>>> Barret Boyes. >>>> Debakey and Cooley's paper on aortic arch aneurysm's >>>> Laks stitch for controllable ASD >>>> Kantrowitz's paper on IABP. >>>> >>>> That is an initial list off hand. >>>> >>>> Prasanna >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Michael Firstenberg wrote: >>>>> Ahhh, those where the days - I remember using some online >>>>> reference >>>>> systems and thinking wow, this is great. >>>>> >>>>> Prasanna - what would it take to get some copies of some of those >>>>> early papers? (ie scanned PDFs?) >>>>> >>>>> -michael >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Jan 1, 2007, at 12:00 AM, prasannasimha wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> For me it is very plain and simple. If I were to subscribe to >>>>>> ATS, >>>>>> JTCVS and EJTCVS, I would have to spend nearly Rs 10,000/= approx >>>>>> per month and that is impossible for me. So I rely on the >>>>>> Hospital >>>>>> Library which gets journals at its own time depending on >>>>>> subscriptions and vagaries of airmail. We have a thing called >>>>>> Helinet.This is a system where our hospital subscribes via our >>>>>> Health university (we have a single university for all medical >>>>>> colleges in Karnataka state) to an Internet based service called >>>>>> HELINET through which we can access certain journals via things >>>>>> like science direct , Ovid etc but unfortunately the only cardiac >>>>>> surgery journal is ATS and that too its payment (and hence >>>>>> access) >>>>>> is a bit erratic. I usually get articles of interest via many >>>>>> kind >>>>>> souls who send them over to me when I ask via email and I >>>>>> acknowledge their altruism in helping me out. There are many >>>>>> journals that are free after varying amounts of time. I can get >>>>>> access say after 6 months or a year and some are free access for >>>>>> India (for Eg Lancet / NEJM etc). Unfortunately the free access >>>>>> system (after a period of time) does not exist for cardiac >>>>>> surgical >>>>>> journals except a couple. >>>>>> The whole process of journal writing etc are to allow >>>>>> dissemination >>>>>> of Knowledge and I cannot see why it has to be locked down after >>>>>> say 6 months or a year. I appreciate that journal publishing >>>>>> companies have to make profits but they should allow free >>>>>> access at >>>>>> least after some time. The contributors and editors have done it >>>>>> for gratis and they should allow access after some time. This >>>>>> would >>>>>> increase the journal's prestige and impact factor anyway. >>>>>> All I have is a few old dusty copies of some earth shaking >>>>>> articles >>>>>> for eg Lillehei's original cross circulation paper and Hillel >>>>>> Laks >>>>>> "Laks suture" (fenestrated ASD for Fontan's) etc. I hold on to >>>>>> these. >>>>>> Then there is a thing called Amedeo which sends interesting >>>>>> articles (the titles and links to PUBMED) weekly which I find >>>>>> useful and PUBMED is great for doing literature searches. >>>>>> >>>>>> I remember taking around 50 disks of Silver Platter and searching >>>>>> Index Medicus or worse the huge bound Journals of Index Medicus >>>>>> that I had to wade through when I did my MS(Gen surg) and >>>>>> MCh(Thoracic) degrees. I had to wear a mask and cap while I >>>>>> rummaged through all those books. My MS thesis was on gall stones >>>>>> and since I read every reference that I quoted, I was >>>>>> searching in >>>>>> the really old archived section of Grant Medical College >>>>>> (which is >>>>>> around 170 years old and so had most of the really old journals). >>>>>> Since photocopying was not very prevalent and expensive , most of >>>>>> these used to be read and the article summarized in a note book.I >>>>>> used to have a carbon paper copy of each page while writing. >>>>>> Writing a thesis was actually involving cut and paste (we used to >>>>>> write it in sections and then actually cut out portions and paste >>>>>> them on sheets) -I still remember Jimmy Carter getting one of the >>>>>> original word processors (basically what we could call as an >>>>>> electronic typewriter) and when I saw my first one. I said Wow it >>>>>> can justify edges and we can correct the lines prior to typing >>>>>> using a preview option. My first thesis was written when I was >>>>>> doing my MBBS - (I had got a research grant as a first year >>>>>> medical student - a rare thing in India those days) and typing >>>>>> on a >>>>>> manual typewriter was such a pain and getting some one to type >>>>>> who >>>>>> could understand medical terminology was a bigger pain !! At that >>>>>> time photocopying was such a laborious process (I am sure many >>>>>> would remember the old manual photocopiers involving a frame with >>>>>> toner that used to be shaked and the margins of the photocopier >>>>>> surface had to be wiped etc) Writing it down was easier !! >>>>>> The final indexing was a tremendous pain invovling flash cards >>>>>> and >>>>>> indexing cards !! >>>>>> Today we can do it all in a click of a button !!! >>>>>> Dr Frater could probably tell about his tribulations in his >>>>>> time !! >>>>>> Prasanna >>>>>> Michael Firstenberg wrote: >>>>>>> I used to like the idea of entire bookselves filled with >>>>>>> Journals >>>>>>> - now they just take up tons of space. Since, for the most part >>>>>>> the internet and PDF access (at least to recent stuff) is easy - >>>>>>> does anyone keep this stuff anymore? if so why? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Am I just being sentimental for the old days? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -michael >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> HAPPY NEW YEAR to all >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> OpenHeart-L mailing list >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Send postings to: >>>>>>> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com>>>>>> L@lists.hsforum.com> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >>>>>>> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l>>>>>> mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >>>>>>> policies anddisclaimers posted at: >>>>>>> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim>>>>>> listdisclaim> >>>>>>> ----------------------------------------- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>>>>>> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.1/611 - Release Date: >>>>>>> 12/31/2006 12:47 PM >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> OpenHeart-L mailing list >>>>>> >>>>>> Send postings to: >>>>>> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com>>>>> L@lists.hsforum.com> >>>>>> >>>>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >>>>>> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l>>>>> mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l> >>>>>> >>>>>> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >>>>>> policies and disclaimers posted at: >>>>>> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim>>>>> listdisclaim> >>>>>> ----------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> OpenHeart-L mailing list >>>>> >>>>> Send postings to: >>>>> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com>>>> L@lists.hsforum.com> >>>>> >>>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >>>>> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l>>>> mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l> >>>>> >>>>> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >>>>> policies anddisclaimers posted at: >>>>> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim>>>> listdisclaim> >>>>> ----------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> OpenHeart-L mailing list >>>> >>>> Send postings to: >>>> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >>>> >>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >>>> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l>>> mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l> >>>> >>>> All messages transmitted by the OpenHeart-L are subject to the >>>> policies and disclaimers posted at: >>>> http://www.hsforum.com/listdisclaim>>> listdisclaim> >>>> ----------------------------------------- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OpenHeart-L mailing list >>> >>> Send postings to: >>> OpenHeart-L@lists.hsforum.com >>> >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, to CHANGE email address, or to view archives: >>> http://mmp.cjp.com/mailman/listinfo/openheart-l>