[HSF] Paper Journals in an Internet age.
Michael Firstenberg
msfirst at gmail.com
Mon Jan 1 18:09:11 EST 2007
agree - but do you keep any of the paper Journal?
I cant stand reading stuff on-line and granted it is a waste of paper
- I usually print out anything that interests me.
(and of course, the next question is if you research a particular
topic - do you keep that also?)
-michael
On Jan 1, 2007, at 3:52 PM, Ani Anyanwu wrote:
> There is one advantage of the paper journal - they serve as reading
> material rather than reference sources. Imagine if the New York
> Times, Le Monde, Time etc were only electronic, how many of the
> articles would actually get read? As of now we tend still to read
> paper rather than electronic material - this may change in future.
> The net result with electronic reading source is we tend to read
> only materials that interest us, or more specifically we do
> searches on the internet and seek what we specifically are
> interested in.
>
> I think there is a role for some paper journals. For example I get
> the paper British Medical Journal every week - this is the only way
> I keep abreast of what is happening in medicine and a reminder that
> I am a doctor, and not just a cardiac surgeon. When I got paper
> annals, I often browsed through the occasional general thoracic or
> congenital paper, but now I rely on electronic only, I barely even
> read cardiac papers that do not interest me. I suspect that if
> newspapers were all electronic, the world would be as more ignorant
> place - how many people read editorials and letters online?
>
> Ani
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Giuseppe Rescigno<mailto:grescigno at mac.com>
> To: OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com<mailto:OpenHeart-
> L at lists.hsforum.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 12:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [HSF] Paper Journals in an Internet age.
>
>
> I agree that the paper journals are actually useless. So why I
> have to pay more than 300 dollars to get the JTCVS in Italy? I
> think that there should be a different subscription rate if you
> prefer to have access to the Journal just by the internet. We are
> wasting a lot of paper (trees), airplane fuel etc. It would be
> interesting to present this idea to the Editor as a HSF group.
>
> Giuseppe
>
>
>
> Giuseppe Rescigno M.D.
> Cardiothoracic Surgeon
>
> Lancisi Hospital
> Torrette - Ancona
> Italy
>
>
>
> On Monday, January 01, 2007, at 04:08PM, "prasannasimha"
> <prasannasimha at gmail.com<mailto:prasannasimha at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Add to the list
>> French correction by Carpentier
>> Cleveland Clinics IMA paper.
>>
>> Now who can get hold an scan me Gibbon's paper ?????
>> That is one of the most difficult to get your hands on !!
>> A nondescript unheard of before journal !!!
>> Prasanna
>> Michael Firstenberg wrote:
>>> Prasanna -
>>>
>>> That would be great!
>>> We clearly need something like "Most Important Papers....."
>>> Not sure what the copyright issues would be, but would be nice to
>>> post
>>> them on the Wiki (or some other source?)
>>>
>>> GET TO WORK on scanning!
>>> Or you could just tease us - like one per week and we can have an
>>> old
>>> fashion journal club discussion on each one - like why it was so
>>> important and how things have change - like they say about those
>>> that
>>> dont learn from their past.
>>>
>>> I have a senior surgeon/mentor at work who does not operate
>>> anymore -
>>> more of a father figure to us all - and I want his help on a similar
>>> project.
>>>
>>>
>>> -michael
>>> On Jan 1, 2007, at 9:16 AM, prasannasimha wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am trying to do some but have to get the time and teh Mood !! If
>>>> some one can send me some of these important ones like Gibbon's
>>>> original paper which was impossible for me to get hands on we could
>>>> make one large collection of the "Most Important papers in Cardiac
>>>> surgery".
>>>> If we could agree to a list of 50 most important papers we could
>>>> try
>>>> to collect them and make them into one large PDF with a brief write
>>>> up of them and why they were so important.
>>>> For starters
>>>> Alexis Carrel's vascular suture paper.
>>>> Jay Macleans paper on Heparin
>>>> Gibbons' original paper
>>>> Bigelow's work on hypothermia with ennis first clinical attempt.
>>>> Andreas and Watson's controlled cross circulation (Paper I never
>>>> got
>>>> to see)
>>>> Lillehei's controlled cross circulation.
>>>> Kirklin's initial series.
>>>> Bharati and Lev's paper on the conduction system in relation to
>>>> VSD's
>>>> Jatenes original paper on the arterial switch
>>>> Fontan's original paper
>>>> Zuhdi et al paper on hemodilution with the paper by Cooley
>>>> added to it.
>>>> Castaneda's paper on neonatal correction.
>>>> Horiuchi's paper of circulatory arrest with the subsequent paper by
>>>> Barret Boyes.
>>>> Debakey and Cooley's paper on aortic arch aneurysm's
>>>> Laks stitch for controllable ASD
>>>> Kantrowitz's paper on IABP.
>>>>
>>>> That is an initial list off hand.
>>>>
>>>> Prasanna
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Michael Firstenberg wrote:
>>>>> Ahhh, those where the days - I remember using some online
>>>>> reference
>>>>> systems and thinking wow, this is great.
>>>>>
>>>>> Prasanna - what would it take to get some copies of some of those
>>>>> early papers? (ie scanned PDFs?)
>>>>>
>>>>> -michael
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 1, 2007, at 12:00 AM, prasannasimha wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> For me it is very plain and simple. If I were to subscribe to
>>>>>> ATS,
>>>>>> JTCVS and EJTCVS, I would have to spend nearly Rs 10,000/= approx
>>>>>> per month and that is impossible for me. So I rely on the
>>>>>> Hospital
>>>>>> Library which gets journals at its own time depending on
>>>>>> subscriptions and vagaries of airmail. We have a thing called
>>>>>> Helinet.This is a system where our hospital subscribes via our
>>>>>> Health university (we have a single university for all medical
>>>>>> colleges in Karnataka state) to an Internet based service called
>>>>>> HELINET through which we can access certain journals via things
>>>>>> like science direct , Ovid etc but unfortunately the only cardiac
>>>>>> surgery journal is ATS and that too its payment (and hence
>>>>>> access)
>>>>>> is a bit erratic. I usually get articles of interest via many
>>>>>> kind
>>>>>> souls who send them over to me when I ask via email and I
>>>>>> acknowledge their altruism in helping me out. There are many
>>>>>> journals that are free after varying amounts of time. I can get
>>>>>> access say after 6 months or a year and some are free access for
>>>>>> India (for Eg Lancet / NEJM etc). Unfortunately the free access
>>>>>> system (after a period of time) does not exist for cardiac
>>>>>> surgical
>>>>>> journals except a couple.
>>>>>> The whole process of journal writing etc are to allow
>>>>>> dissemination
>>>>>> of Knowledge and I cannot see why it has to be locked down after
>>>>>> say 6 months or a year. I appreciate that journal publishing
>>>>>> companies have to make profits but they should allow free
>>>>>> access at
>>>>>> least after some time. The contributors and editors have done it
>>>>>> for gratis and they should allow access after some time. This
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> increase the journal's prestige and impact factor anyway.
>>>>>> All I have is a few old dusty copies of some earth shaking
>>>>>> articles
>>>>>> for eg Lillehei's original cross circulation paper and Hillel
>>>>>> Laks
>>>>>> "Laks suture" (fenestrated ASD for Fontan's) etc. I hold on to
>>>>>> these.
>>>>>> Then there is a thing called Amedeo which sends interesting
>>>>>> articles (the titles and links to PUBMED) weekly which I find
>>>>>> useful and PUBMED is great for doing literature searches.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I remember taking around 50 disks of Silver Platter and searching
>>>>>> Index Medicus or worse the huge bound Journals of Index Medicus
>>>>>> that I had to wade through when I did my MS(Gen surg) and
>>>>>> MCh(Thoracic) degrees. I had to wear a mask and cap while I
>>>>>> rummaged through all those books. My MS thesis was on gall stones
>>>>>> and since I read every reference that I quoted, I was
>>>>>> searching in
>>>>>> the really old archived section of Grant Medical College
>>>>>> (which is
>>>>>> around 170 years old and so had most of the really old journals).
>>>>>> Since photocopying was not very prevalent and expensive , most of
>>>>>> these used to be read and the article summarized in a note book.I
>>>>>> used to have a carbon paper copy of each page while writing.
>>>>>> Writing a thesis was actually involving cut and paste (we used to
>>>>>> write it in sections and then actually cut out portions and paste
>>>>>> them on sheets) -I still remember Jimmy Carter getting one of the
>>>>>> original word processors (basically what we could call as an
>>>>>> electronic typewriter) and when I saw my first one. I said Wow it
>>>>>> can justify edges and we can correct the lines prior to typing
>>>>>> using a preview option. My first thesis was written when I was
>>>>>> doing my MBBS - (I had got a research grant as a first year
>>>>>> medical student - a rare thing in India those days) and typing
>>>>>> on a
>>>>>> manual typewriter was such a pain and getting some one to type
>>>>>> who
>>>>>> could understand medical terminology was a bigger pain !! At that
>>>>>> time photocopying was such a laborious process (I am sure many
>>>>>> would remember the old manual photocopiers involving a frame with
>>>>>> toner that used to be shaked and the margins of the photocopier
>>>>>> surface had to be wiped etc) Writing it down was easier !!
>>>>>> The final indexing was a tremendous pain invovling flash cards
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> indexing cards !!
>>>>>> Today we can do it all in a click of a button !!!
>>>>>> Dr Frater could probably tell about his tribulations in his
>>>>>> time !!
>>>>>> Prasanna
>>>>>> Michael Firstenberg wrote:
>>>>>>> I used to like the idea of entire bookselves filled with
>>>>>>> Journals
>>>>>>> - now they just take up tons of space. Since, for the most part
>>>>>>> the internet and PDF access (at least to recent stuff) is easy -
>>>>>>> does anyone keep this stuff anymore? if so why?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am I just being sentimental for the old days?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -michael
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> HAPPY NEW YEAR to all
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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