[HSF] Paper Journals in an Internet age.

Nasser F. Abou'Seada nfaabouseada at gmail.com
Mon Jan 1 20:06:31 EST 2007 

Giuseppe: I do agree with you. would vote yes for that. 

NFA

> -----Original Message-----
> From: openheart-l-bounces at lists.hsforum.com [mailto:openheart-l-
> bounces at lists.hsforum.com] On Behalf Of Giuseppe Rescigno
> Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 12:51 PM
> To: OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com
> Subject: Re: [HSF] Paper Journals in an Internet age.
> 
> I agree that the paper journals are actually useless. So why I have to pay
more than
> 300 dollars to get the JTCVS in Italy? I think that there should be a
different
> subscription rate if you prefer to have access to the Journal just by the
internet. We
> are wasting a lot of paper (trees), airplane fuel etc. It would be
interesting to present
> this idea to the Editor as a HSF group.
> 
> Giuseppe
> 
> 
> 
> Giuseppe Rescigno M.D.
> Cardiothoracic Surgeon
> 
> Lancisi Hospital
> Torrette - Ancona
> Italy
> 
> 
> 
> On Monday, January 01, 2007, at 04:08PM, "prasannasimha"
> <prasannasimha at gmail.com> wrote:
> >Add to the list
> >French correction by Carpentier
> >Cleveland Clinics IMA paper.
> >
> >Now who can get hold an scan me Gibbon's paper ?????
> >That is one of the most  difficult to get your hands on !!
> >A nondescript unheard of before journal !!!
> >Prasanna
> >Michael Firstenberg wrote:
> >> Prasanna -
> >>
> >> That would be great!
> >> We clearly need something like "Most Important Papers....."
> >> Not sure what the copyright issues would be, but would be nice to post
> >> them on the Wiki (or some other source?)
> >>
> >> GET TO WORK on scanning!
> >> Or you could just tease us - like one per week and we can have an old
> >> fashion journal club discussion on each one - like why it was so
> >> important and how things have change - like they say about those that
> >> dont learn from their past.
> >>
> >> I have a senior surgeon/mentor at work who does not operate anymore -
> >> more of a father figure to us all - and I want his help on a similar
> >> project.
> >>
> >>
> >> -michael
> >> On Jan 1, 2007, at 9:16 AM, prasannasimha wrote:
> >>
> >>> I am trying to do some but have to get the time and teh Mood !! If
> >>> some one can send me some of these important ones like Gibbon's
> >>> original paper which was impossible for me to get hands on we could
> >>> make one large collection of the "Most Important papers in Cardiac
> >>> surgery".
> >>> If we could agree to a list of 50 most important papers we could try
> >>> to collect them and make them into one large PDF with a brief write
> >>> up of them and why they were so important.
> >>> For starters
> >>> Alexis Carrel's vascular suture paper.
> >>> Jay Macleans paper on Heparin
> >>> Gibbons' original paper
> >>> Bigelow's work on hypothermia with ennis first clinical attempt.
> >>> Andreas and Watson's controlled cross circulation (Paper I never got
> >>> to see)
> >>> Lillehei's controlled cross circulation.
> >>> Kirklin's initial series.
> >>> Bharati and Lev's paper on the conduction system in relation to VSD's
> >>> Jatenes original paper on the arterial switch
> >>> Fontan's original paper
> >>> Zuhdi et al  paper on hemodilution with the paper by Cooley added to
it.
> >>> Castaneda's paper on neonatal correction.
> >>> Horiuchi's paper of circulatory arrest with the subsequent paper by
> >>> Barret Boyes.
> >>> Debakey and Cooley's paper on aortic arch aneurysm's
> >>> Laks stitch for controllable ASD
> >>> Kantrowitz's paper on IABP.
> >>>
> >>> That is an initial list off hand.
> >>>
> >>> Prasanna
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Michael Firstenberg wrote:
> >>>> Ahhh, those where the days - I remember using some online reference
> >>>> systems and thinking wow, this is great.
> >>>>
> >>>> Prasanna - what would it take to get some copies of some of those
> >>>> early papers?  (ie scanned PDFs?)
> >>>>
> >>>> -michael
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Jan 1, 2007, at 12:00 AM, prasannasimha wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> For me it is very plain and simple. If I were to subscribe to ATS,
> >>>>> JTCVS and EJTCVS, I would have to spend nearly Rs 10,000/= approx
> >>>>> per month and that is impossible for me. So I rely on the Hospital
> >>>>> Library which gets journals at its own time depending on
> >>>>> subscriptions and vagaries of airmail. We have a thing called
> >>>>> Helinet.This is a system where our hospital subscribes via our
> >>>>> Health university (we have a single university for all medical
> >>>>> colleges in Karnataka state) to an Internet based service called
> >>>>> HELINET through which we can access certain journals via things
> >>>>> like science direct , Ovid etc but unfortunately the only cardiac
> >>>>> surgery journal is ATS and that too its payment (and hence access)
> >>>>> is a bit erratic. I usually get articles of interest via many kind
> >>>>> souls who send them over to me when I ask via email and I
> >>>>> acknowledge their altruism in helping me out. There are many
> >>>>> journals that are free after varying amounts of time. I can get
> >>>>> access say after 6 months or a year and some are free access for
> >>>>> India (for Eg Lancet / NEJM etc). Unfortunately the free access
> >>>>> system (after a period of time) does not exist for cardiac surgical
> >>>>> journals except a couple.
> >>>>> The whole process of journal writing etc are to allow dissemination
> >>>>> of Knowledge and I cannot see why it has to be locked down after
> >>>>> say 6 months or a year. I appreciate that journal publishing
> >>>>> companies have to make profits but they should allow free access at
> >>>>> least after some time. The contributors and editors have done it
> >>>>> for gratis and they should allow access after some time. This would
> >>>>> increase the journal's prestige and impact factor anyway.
> >>>>> All I have is a few old dusty copies of some earth shaking articles
> >>>>> for eg Lillehei's original cross circulation paper and Hillel Laks
> >>>>> "Laks suture" (fenestrated ASD for Fontan's) etc. I hold on to
these.
> >>>>> Then there is a thing called Amedeo which sends interesting
> >>>>> articles (the titles and links to PUBMED) weekly which I find
> >>>>> useful and PUBMED is great for doing literature searches.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I remember taking around 50 disks of Silver Platter and searching
> >>>>> Index Medicus or worse the huge bound Journals of Index Medicus
> >>>>> that I had to wade through when I did my MS(Gen surg) and
> >>>>> MCh(Thoracic) degrees. I had to wear a mask and cap while I
> >>>>> rummaged through all those books. My MS thesis was on gall stones
> >>>>> and since I read every reference that I quoted, I was searching in
> >>>>> the really old archived section of Grant Medical College (which is
> >>>>> around 170 years old and so had most of the really old journals).
> >>>>> Since photocopying was not very prevalent and expensive , most of
> >>>>> these used to be read and the article summarized in a note book.I
> >>>>> used to have a carbon paper copy of each page while writing.
> >>>>> Writing a thesis was actually involving cut and paste (we used to
> >>>>> write it in sections and then actually cut out portions and paste
> >>>>> them on sheets) -I still remember Jimmy Carter getting one of the
> >>>>> original word processors (basically what we could call as an
> >>>>> electronic typewriter) and when I saw my first one. I said Wow it
> >>>>> can justify edges and we can correct the lines prior to typing
> >>>>> using a preview option. My first thesis was written when I was
> >>>>> doing my MBBS  - (I had got a research grant as a first year
> >>>>> medical student - a rare thing in India those days) and typing on a
> >>>>> manual typewriter was such a pain and getting some one to type who
> >>>>> could understand medical terminology was a bigger pain !! At that
> >>>>> time photocopying was such a laborious process (I am sure many
> >>>>> would remember the old manual photocopiers involving a frame with
> >>>>> toner that used to be shaked and the margins of the photocopier
> >>>>> surface had to be wiped etc) Writing it down was easier !!
> >>>>> The final indexing was a tremendous pain invovling flash cards and
> >>>>> indexing cards !!
> >>>>> Today we can do it all in a click of a button !!!
> >>>>> Dr Frater could probably tell about his tribulations  in his time !!
> >>>>> Prasanna
> >>>>> Michael Firstenberg wrote:
> >>>>>> I used to like the idea of entire bookselves filled with Journals
> >>>>>> - now they just take up tons of space.  Since, for the most part
> >>>>>> the internet and PDF access (at least to recent stuff) is easy -
> >>>>>> does anyone keep this stuff anymore?  if so why?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Am I just being sentimental for the old days?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -michael
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> HAPPY NEW YEAR to all
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
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