[HSF] Problem of tautology, or boundaries of the types of thinking we bring to our methodologies, in our studies

Wed Nov 14 16:02:33 EST 2007

A tautology is just a self consistent argument whether it is simplistic, if universal, like, "God is everything, therefore everything comes from god," or a system like Euclidean geometry, or the much sought for unifiying theory of physics. All of these seek the answers in the same form that they ask them. The methodologies are merely mechanisms or measurement tools inside the system that tease out the details of the system. 

For example on a smaller scale while the gross anatomy of the circulatory system and specifically the general structure of the mitral valve has been known for centuries if not millenia, it required the superposition of the idea that these were part of a circulatory system to make progress in a more meaningful (question and answers) direction in understanding its use. If we think of stem cells as traveling and orienting along a matrix to form tissues and organs, we may do bettter than looking for the "on switch" in a single stem cell.

tea

----- Original Message ----
From: Nasser F. Abou'Seada <nfaabouseada at gmail.com>
To: OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 5:11:55 PM
Subject: [HSF] Problem of tautology, or boundaries of the types of thinking we bring to our methodologies, in our studies

"That few in cardiac surgery found it so, only underscores the problem of
tautology, or the boundaries of the types of thinking that we bring to our
methodologies, in our studies"
Oh Dear Tea ......... my simple humble mind can not digest that rich complex
statement .... please extrapolate ....

Cheers

NFA

On Nov 14, 2007 1:05 PM, Tea Acuff <tacuff at swbell.net> wrote:

> This is a rather odd situation. Maybe I should refocus on the environment
> rather than the situation. The regulatory environment is rather odd. The
> extracellular matrix has been approved for "intra cardiac use" as are other
> "patch" material.
> There are no studies of its long term function (structure), but the
> interesting thing is that the short term observation is that this material,
> which is the matrix or the roadside commerial real estate of the body, if
> you will, turns into the tissue that it replaces and is in contact with. In
> this case histologically becoming  normal valve tissue if applied in a
> suitable manner.
>  This a very peculiar and interesting field of study. That few in cardiac
> surgery found it so, only underscores the problem of tautology, or the
> boundaries of the types of thinking that we bring to our methodologies, in
> our studies.
>
> tea
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "rwmfglycar at aol.com" <rwmfglycar at aol.com>
> To: OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com
>  Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 11:27:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [HSF] Aortic Regurgitation in 16 year old
>
> Tested means experiments to determine, as far as you can,?its behaviour as
> a leaflet if you are going to use it as a leaflet. It means knowing its
> behaviour in juveniles if you are going to use it in juveniles.
> Bob
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tea Acuff <tacuff at swbell.net>
> To: OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com
> Sent: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 10:39 pm
> Subject: Re: [HSF] Aortic Regurgitation in 16 year old
>
>
>
> That depends on what you mean by tested. It has been used in a variety of
> anatomical positions. I'll forward your request to Rob Matheny the founder
> of
> Cor Matrix.
>
> tea
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "rwmfglycar at aol.com" <rwmfglycar at aol.com>
> To: OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 10:43:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [HSF] Aortic Regurgitation in 16 year old
>
> Tea
> Where can one find data on the Cor matrix pericardial substitute?
> Hasitbeen
> tested other than as a cover for the heart?
> Bob
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tea Acuff <tacuff at swbell.net>
> To: OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com
> Sent: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 5:35 pm
> Subject: Re: [HSF] Aortic Regurgitation in 16 year old
>
>
>
> Bill, or Prasanna for that matter,
> If you are looking at tissue extension for leaflets have you looked at the
> Cor
> matrix (extracellular matrix) "pericardial" substitute?
>
> tea
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "rwmfglycar at aol.com" <rwmfglycar at aol.com>
> To: OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 1:20:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [HSF] Aortic Regurgitation in 16 year old
>
>
> These cases are very pathology dependent. The thicker the leaflets the
> more the
> difficulty. I never was too happy with leaflet unfurling.
> Pericardial leaflets in a goretex tube very interesting,
>
> Bob
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ICHFNO at aol.com
> To: OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com
> Sent: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 12:38 pm
> Subject: [HSF] Aortic Regurgitation in 16 year old
>
>
>
>
> The child with aortic regurgitation I presented last week was operated on
> today. Leaflets were rolled and thickened severely, as with RF. Initially
> we did
>
>
>
> 3 leaflet thinning and leaflet augmentation with glutaraldehyde fixed
> autologous  pericardium. Gave the CP upon aortic closure and at low flow
> rate
> competency was  noted, but at high flows had some LV distention. Removed
> the
> clamp,
> and once the  heart was beating TEE showed moderate residual AI. Did a
> Ross.
> Made a  trileaflet valve from Goretex and remainder of pericardium for
> conduit.
> Off with  trivial AI and RV Valve conduit gradient of 5 by direct
> measurement. This is the  2nd one in a row we have had to convert to a
> Ross
> after failed
> leaflet  extension, must be doing something wrong!
>
> Bill
>
>
>
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