[HSF] Standard of care for lawyers

Michael Firstenberg msfirst at gmail.com
Wed Apr 9 23:04:18 EDT 2008 

i also know of some lawyers who can not find a physician in town and
have to travel to different cities for health care since they have
pissed off all of the local docs.

On 4/9/08, Michael Firstenberg <msfirst at gmail.com> wrote:
> although one can argue what comes around goes around.  the lawyers
> that i have taken care of often are often the victums of vomitus
> extremeus.  they often have the worst problems and comorbidities from
> years of neglect or holier than thou attitudes... the more arrogent
> the worse their problems.... they cant hide from their own medical
> problems.
>
> my mother is a lawyer who pays for malpractice insurance and is always
> fretting over mistakes and cleaning up the mistakes - i.e. malpractice
> - of others.  the stuff she sees that other lawyers have screwed up
> will make your blood boil.
>
> On 4/9/08, Donald Ross <donross at bigpond.com> wrote:
> > Like tea said it is the commonest interpretation  of the golden rule.
> > Lawyers make the rules so it is hardly surprising to see how
> > thoroughly they look after themselves.
> > In Australia you can't  sue a barrister.  It is against the law.
> > All Ed can do is run for office, but that would entail joining those
> > sewage dwelling creatures.
> > Don
> > On 10/04/2008, at 10:08 AM, DukeB60 at aol.com wrote:
> >
> > > Ed,
> > >     My original plan was to get an opinion from the  Counsel for
> > > Discipline
> > > then bring an action against this lawyer for his  unbelievably
> > > shoddy work.  If
> > > you read my letter to the Court you would  have thought is was a
> > > complete no
> > > brainer decision but guess what.  I  wasn't totally surprised that
> > > the Counsel
> > > didn't rule against the lawyer but the  statements that is was
> > > basically okay
> > > to be negligent was shocking even to me so  it will probably be a
> > > total waste
> > > of time to try to sue his a**.  I hate  the whole idea anyway but
> > > feel like I
> > > got screwed.  And to think the  Supreme Court would use the term
> > > "bungle" in
> > > it's opinion is sadly  amusing.  When was the last time you heard
> > > the term
> > > "bungle" in a medical  malpractice action.  OMG.   I'm so upset
> > > with the whole
> > > situation  I could spit but will undoubtedly just chalk it up to
> > > experience.  I
> > > just  thought the Forum should know the incredibly low standard
> > > that lawyers
> > > are held  accountable to in their own profession.  I had no idea
> > > and this
> > > official  letter set the bar, so to speak, even lower than I
> > > thought possible.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >                   Ed
> > >
> > > Edward P.  Raines, M.D., J.D.
> > > BryanLGH Cardiothoracic Surgery
> > > BryanLGH Medical Center  East
> > > 1600 South 48th Str.
> > > Lincoln, Nebraska 68506
> > > Office:  402-481-8430
> > > Cell: 402-730-9242
> > > Fax: 402-481-8429
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 4/9/2008 5:49:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> > > ebender001 at charter.net writes:
> > >
> > > Mike:
> > > I was holding back.  I don't kid myself to think that  there are no
> > > legal-type lurkers on this forum.  If there are any  listening in,
> > > I've got a
> > > hot tip on several cases of negligence and some  adverse drug
> > > reactions that
> > > have yet to be published.  I'm just  looking for a finders fee.
> > > All kidding
> > > aside, I would bet that in  every hospital in the country (USA),
> > > there are
> > > paid informants that report  back to litigators when they see an
> > > adverse
> > > outcome.  Sometimes it  might even be your colleague, your favorite
> > > nurse or
> > > respiratory therapist,  or even the custodial staff.  It is
> > > surprising how
> > > little "blood  money" it takes.
> > >
> > > Ed Bender, MD
> > >
> > >
> > > On 4/9/08 5:34 PM, "Michael  Firstenberg" <msfirst at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Ed
> > >> Tell us  how you really feel - dont hold back it is just us.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>  Michael Firstenberg <msfirst at gmail.com>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original  Message-----
> > >> From: "Edward Bender"  <ebender001 at charter.net>
> > >> To:  OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com
> > >> Sent: 4/9/2008 5:48 PM
> > >> Subject:  Re: [HSF] Standard of care for lawyers
> > >>
> > >> This is disturbing but  not that surprising.  Perhaps if lawyers were
> > >> required to carry  malpractice insurance that paid as well as medical
> > >> malpractice  insurance, there would be an incentive for one
> > >> attorney to go
> > >> after  another.  As it stands, what's in it for a prospective
> > >> plaintiff?
> > >>  Ethics are obviously not involved.
> > >>
> > >> I related your story to  one of my cardiologists with whom I
> > >> regularly trade
> > >> legal nightmare  stories.  He tells me of a surgeon who was in the
> > >> middle of
> > >> an  aortic aneurysm repair who was mistakenly paged by an outside
> > >> ER for a
> > >>  trauma case.  He wasn't on call and obviously could not deal with
> > >> the
> > > acute
> > >> trauma during his AAA repair in any case.  The correct  surgeon
> > >> was called,
> > >> the patient was transferred but died in the ER of  severe multiple
> > >> trauma.
> > >> The mistakenly called surgeon was named in the  subsequent law
> > >> suit, and the
> > >> plaintiff's attorney refused to drop him  from the case unless he
> > >> was paid
> > >> some money.  This went on for  years, and he was eventually
> > >> dropped.  The
> > >> surgeon wanted to sue  the attorney but could find no attorney
> > >> that was
> > >> willing to take the  case.  The surgeon was so angered by this
> > >> that he spent
> > >> the next  year learning how to file and pursue this himself, and he
> > >> eventually  won a huge settlement from the litigator's law firm.
> > >> The moral
> > >>  of the story is that litigators are scum sucking, bottom
> > >> dwelling,  garbage
> > >> eating pig-f**kers, who have crawled out of the a**hole of  hell -
> > >> and I
> > > mean
> > >> that with all due respect.
> > >>
> > >> Ed  Bender, MD
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 4/9/08 1:28 PM, "dukeb60 at aol.com"  <dukeb60 at aol.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> ?? It has been fairly  quiet on the forum so I'll post this
> > >>> recent response
> > >>> from our  State Supreme Court to induce some reaction.? As you
> > >>> know, I am a
> > >>>  lawyer although I have never practiced law but do have a little
> > >>> more
> > >>> background than the average person and did pass the bar.? I
> > >>> recently had a
> > >>> lawyer handle a case for me in which he performed  very poorly
> > >>> and what I
> > >>> considered to be in a frankly negligent  manner by not
> > >>> representing my
> > >>> interests and failing to even read  some rather pertinent legal
> > > materials.? As
> > >>> a result, I filed a  complaint with the Counsel for Discipline of
> > >>> our State
> > >>> Supreme  court to review his handling of the case.? The response
> > >>> startled
> > > even
> > >>> me not so much in the conclusion but the rational for the  same,
> > >>> which I
> > > will
> > >>> share.? The respondent wrote,
> > >>>
> > >>> "Isolated instances of ordinary negligence or errors of
> > >>> judgement  do not
> > > rise
> > >>> to the level of a disciplinary violation and are not  sufficient
> > >>> to warrant
> > >>> disciplinary action.?
> > >>>  ?
> > >>> ??As stated in Modern?Legal Ethics (1986):
> > >>> ???
> > >>> ????????? To date, the enforcement of competence standards has  been
> > > generally
> > >>> limited to relatively exotic, blatant, or repeated  cases of lawyer
> > > bungling.?
> > >>> Lawyers who make some showing of  effort, and who do nothing
> > >>> other than
> > >>> perform
> > >>> badly,  rarely appear in the appellate reports in discipline
> > >>> cases.? The
> > >>>  lawyers who are disciplined for? incompetence have usually
> > >>> aggravated
> > > their
> > >>> situation.? For example, several cases involve lawyers who,
> > >>> after their
> > >>> incompetent work, concocted elaborate schemes or lies  to decieve
> > >>> a client
> > >>> whose case was mishandled.
> > >>>
> > >>> ?? ... For the above reasons I have concluded, pursuant to Rule  of
> > > Discipline
> > >>> 9(C), that your allegations against Attorney "X" do  not warrant
> > >>> further
> > >>> inquiry by this office."?
> > >>>
> > >>> ???? So, this is the standard to which our legal professionals
> > >>> are held in
> > >>> their handling of cases.? I am quite certain it is not  the same
> > >>> standard
> > > to
> > >>> which we, as medical professionals, are held  in the handling of our
> > > cases.?
> > >>> It
> > >>> is okay to bungle as  long as you don't concoct a scheme to
> > >>> conceal the
> > >>>  bungling.
> > >>> ?
> > >>> As much as it is hard to believe that is  actually what a
> > >>> representative of
> > >>> the
> > >>> Supreme Court  wrote it is true.? Caveat emptor, clearly, is the
> > >>> rule in
> > > law.?
> > >>>  While I appreciate the education of a law degree, it is indeed
> > > embarrassing
> > >>> sometimes to be one.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > > ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
> > > ???????>
> > >>
> > > ?
> > >>>  ????????????????????????????????????????? Ed
> > >>>  _______________________________________________
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