AW: AW: [HSF] New crazy operations and solutions at HZL

[Tea Acuff]

Let me simply say that while a valve in the heart may have a similar function as a valve in a man made water treatment plant, the milieu of the valve in the heart is subject to very complex homeostasis (feedback) systems. Most of our understanding of biologic sytems are as if they were primarily a constructed engineering system that can be described as two variables plotted on a (Cartesian) graph. Think all the graphs, p values ,etc that "explain" the behavior of scientific observations. Now imagine that your friend asks if you want to go see the palyoff game tomorrow night. Probably just checking to see if you are on call might be enough most times, but what if it is your wifes birthday, the kids are giving a play, your talk for next week is still up in the air. Your schedule and availability have little direct meaning any more. Such is life and biology.

tea



----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Firstenberg <msfirst at gmail.com>
To: OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 10:10:52 AM
Subject: Re: AW: AW: [HSF] New crazy operations and solutions at HZL

Tea

most of the time I can at least follow you - but with regards to your last
post......

huh?


-michael
(maybe I need more coffee)




On 4/26/08, Tea Acuff <tacuff at swbell.net> wrote:
>
> I agree with the last part. We are a long way. If I may let me propose a
> more fundamental problem than the needs of the network of builders. Not only
> is a system needed to build a valve (or heart as in LVAD, etc), but what we
> are trying to build is itself part of a system. That is, multiple other
> interactions that we do not plan for are simultaneously occuring. A valve is
> not just hydrodynamic, but rheodynamic, immunodynamic, possible needing to
> grow, in short, needing to conform in ways that are not clear but cause
> individual failures. This is why repair tends to "function" better than
> replacement, why tissue even if less durable is more biologically friendly,
> and in line with this logic biological interactive (especially "autologous")
> solutions or replacements will always in the end out perform mechanical
> replacements.
>
> Or as I say the world is not flat (or even Cartesian). It is round as in a
> complex system.
>
> tea
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "Rwmfglycar at aol.com" <Rwmfglycar at aol.com>
> To: OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com
> Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 5:42:29 PM
> Subject: Re: AW: AW: [HSF] New crazy operations and solutions at HZL
>
>
> In a message dated 4/25/2008 10:14:24 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> tacuff at swbell.net writes:
>
> So what  do you think about your 1960 pronouncement 50 years later both
> specifically  and generally, Bob?
>
> tea
>
>
>
> Obviously I was pretty naive but it did me good to have my  careless
> statement criticised. I would not have believed then that 48  years later
> we would
> still be so far from achieving the goals we laid down for  ourselves then.
> Some
> of us actually already understood what in  principle we needed to know in
> order
> to achieve those goals. The truth is  that we still fall very far short of
> understanding  the basic  science essential  to do the job of producing
> the
> perfect valve  replacement.
> One of the conundrums is that valves need industry for development and
> industry needs early profit. Radical innovation does not come from
> this  equation.
> If you look at valves that have made it through to regular use in  recent
> decades they usually have no more than one new or special feature
> to  distinguish
> them from others. Sometimes it is no more than a different way to  put the
> valve in or a conformation of the inflow to produce more laminar
> flow;  the kind
> of change that might be described as a key marketing feature.  Roberto
> quoted
> Kuhn. My opinion is that we are nowhere near a revolutionary  paradigm
> shift
> of the kind that he described.
> Bob
>
>
>
> **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used
> car
> listings at AOL Autos.
> (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)
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