[HSF] Why cardiac surgeons dont do NIH research

[Tea Acuff]

What are we ? Chopped liver? I don't give a hoot about funding or IRB's. Tell me what you think and why.
Oh, yeh, you are an academian. I am choppped liver.
tea



----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Firstenberg <msfirst at gmail.com>
To: OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 7:36:14 PM
Subject: Re: [HSF] Why cardiac surgeons dont do NIH research

hobby research -
I like that term.  Now a simple chart review involves so much IRB  
paperwork and assorted headaches it amazes that anything gets  
published anymore.

long gone are the days of asking a simple question just to be  
curious, writing it up, and presenting it to a bunch of colleagues  
who also like to ask and answer questions

-michael

On May 29, 2008, at 10:58 AM, rwmfglycar at aol.com wrote:

> Adam you are quite right in what you say. During the coronary  
> bonanza (or gold rush or whatever you want to call it) we stopped  
> applying for NIH grants and used a part of? our private practice  
> earnings to fund research. Both the medical school and the hospital  
> were already gathering their taxes but because the few big earners  
> we had did not feel they needed every dollar left over and did not  
> mind that we had non surgeons on our payroll they were content .  
> The academic scientists working in the cardiothoracic division were  
> relieved of the burden of
> grant applications and grant reports and were very productive.We  
> for a period of ten or more years had more papers and abstracts  
> selected for the ACCC and AHA each year than the Cardiology  
> division. But when the Health Care Tsars, trying to control costs,  
> launched an easy?attack on reimbursement for cardiac surgey, and  
> the Medical School missed their customary 60% NIH overhead we were  
> accused of doing "hobby research" and it all came to an end. When  
> there is a pot of gold anywhere there are always those who are  
> quite certain that they have more right than those who earned? it  
> to use and control it. From time to time they will let a little of  
> it trickle through their fingers to the earners. (Kurt Vonnegut).
> Bob
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adam Saltman <aes.md.phd at hotmail.com>
> To: openheart-l at lists.hsforum.com
> Sent: Thu, 29 May 2008 8:27 am
> Subject: RE: [HSF] Why cardiac surgeons dont do NIH research
>
>
>
> This is a vicious cycle, and unfortunately we are trapped in it. I  
> have tried 4
> times (yes, 4) for R01 grants and been denied, despite "improving"  
> the grant
> each time according to the study section's comments...
>
> The issue is that there are no surgeons are the study sections  
> because to be on
> a study section you need to have NIH ("or equivalent") funding, and  
> dollars are
> tight so the PhDs protect each others' livelihoods and say, "That  
> surgeon can
> just go do some more cases to pay his bills. We only have our  
> grants for
> income..."
>
>
>
>
>
>> Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 12:08:58 -0400
>> From: msfirst at gmail.com
>> To: OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com
>> CC:
>> Subject: [HSF] Why cardiac surgeons dont do NIH research
>>
>> Ugh!
>>
>> So I was working with our research group and submitted an RO1 gant  
>> to the
>> NIH looking at a proposed mechanism for vein graft failure (vs  
>> arteries).
>> The grant did not even get scored on the primary comment that "
>>
>> *we shouldn't study saphenous veins since they are not used  
>> clinically
>> anymore*".  So according to whoever at the NIH reviewed this -  
>> not only are
>> there no vein bypasses being performed, but this is obviously not  
>> even a
>> problem worth studying......
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -michael
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