[HSF] AATS 2009

Donald Ross donross at bigpond.com
Fri May 15 10:14:26 EDT 2009 

Ben,
The evidence that no touchy  reduces stroke is stacking up so it is  
probably a corollary that less touchy is safer than a handful.
Sound familiar?
Don
On 15/05/2009, at 9:01 AM, Ben Bidstrup wrote:

> Certainly not Don - but he has another cost free method.
>
> I wonder and the study will probably never get done (as it will not  
> influence cardiac surgeons enough) whether these devices do reduce  
> the incidence of stroke.
>
> No money in the evidence produced by the study and the venture  
> capitalists want their money back as soon as the 510K can be filed.
>
>
> Ben Bidstrup FRACS FRCSEd FEBCTS
> Cardiothoracic Surgeon
>
>
>
> On 15/05/2009, at 3:06 AM, Michael Firstenberg wrote:
>
>> But that is part of the problem - everyone is trying to make money  
>> off of
>> cardiac surgery (which is in part why everything is so expensive)  
>> and yet,
>> sometimes it is the least expensive tools that work the best.
>>
>> Look at all of the gizmos for off-pump proximals..... and who uses  
>> a side
>> biting clamp?
>>
>> -michael
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 1:00 PM, Roberto Battellini <
>> robertobattellini at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Great Prasanna!!
>>>
>>>> From: prasannasimha at gmail.com
>>>> Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 21:54:45 +0530
>>>> Subject: Re: [HSF] AATS 2009
>>>> To: OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com
>>>> CC:
>>>>
>>>> You are welcome to use my cautery !! No industry required for it.
>>>> Prasanna
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 6:45 PM, <zzhoumd at pol.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Without industry driven, the Maze procedure is probably dead. We  
>>>>> have
>>> at
>>>>> least cured some of them now.
>>>>>
>>>>> Z Zhou
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Tea Acuff <tacuff at swbell.net>
>>>>>
>>>>> Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 21:02:16
>>>>> To: <OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [HSF] AATS 2009
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well this separation between whore and scientist seems to fail,  
>>>>> that
>>>>> is depends, on ideological grounds. Dr Cox apparently wears  
>>>>> whatever
>>> hat is
>>>>> convenient. I realize this may well be sour grapes on my part as  
>>>>> I am
>>> not in
>>>>> his league in either realm. What exactly is "sound judgement"?  
>>>>> We could
>>>>> reread a few of my irrelevant posts, but if we do not know whom  
>>>>> we are,
>>> how
>>>>> shall we tell anyone. Maybe that is the deal with the ole boy  
>>>>> network.
>>> They
>>>>> agree in the back room to support the government and they will be
>>> picked as
>>>>> experts for their "participation" (buy in).
>>>>>
>>>>> tea
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Edward Bender <ebender001 at me.com>
>>>>> To: HSF List <OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 6:23:45 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [HSF] AATS 2009
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim Cox said he believes that this has been "industry driven"  
>>>>> rather
>>> than
>>>>> driven by sound decision making. Imagine all the device  
>>>>> manufacturers
>>> (not
>>>>> to mention surgeons) licking their collective chops to gain  
>>>>> access to
>>> the
>>>>> millions of a-fibbers.
>>>>> Its just like the companies trying to go after any male who can't
>>> generate
>>>>> a
>>>>> "hard-on" the size of Florida at the drop of a hat (or panties).  
>>>>> There
>>> are
>>>>> a
>>>>> lot of us out there who can not perform like a 16 year old. Now  
>>>>> Viagra
>>> is
>>>>> not just for impotence, but for those who want a "more satisfying"
>>> sexual
>>>>> experience.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ed Bender, MD
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/12/09 4:54 PM, "Michael Firstenberg" <msfirst at gmail.com>  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ed -
>>>>>> I think I already know the answer to this (and have voiced it in
>>>>>> previous posts) - but with afib (and all types) so common, why  
>>>>>> is it
>>>>>> so hard to generate "real studies" with "real follow-up" and  
>>>>>> heaven,
>>>>>> forbid, "real data" that gets published and discussed at a major
>>>>>> meeting? No randomized studies? No standardized follow-up?  
>>>>>> Sure, I
>>>>>> know my approach and those of others to this problem - but why  
>>>>>> can we
>>>>>> not do a better job being scientists with this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -michael
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 12, 2009, at 5:44 PM, Edward Bender wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michael:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The afib surgery problem was typified by Pat McCarthy's talk  
>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>> was a combination of heterogeneous patients looked at in a  
>>>>>>> mishmash
>>>>>>> of prospective and retrospective ways, using 5 different  
>>>>>>> operations.
>>>>>>> It added nothing to the body of scientific knowledge except more
>>>>>>> confusion. No conclusions except we have bastardized the  
>>>>>>> original
>>>>>>> Cox technique and are reaping the rewards of disbelief by our
>>>>>>> cardiology colleagues. Niv Ad preceded Pat with a talk  
>>>>>>> entitled Maze
>>>>>>> procedure: Ready for Primetime? Answer was NO! I feel as  
>>>>>>> guilty as
>>>>>>> anyone about this, having performed full lesion sets with cryo
>>>>>>> energy and having extremely good and predictable results (even  
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> longstanding persistent AF), then fudging the operation a  
>>>>>>> little to
>>>>>>> not do the right sided lesions, maybe not do an external  
>>>>>>> coronary
>>>>>>> sinus freeze in concert with the mitral isthmus lesion, etc.  
>>>>>>> My Ides
>>>>>>> of May resolution is to do the operation that has been shown  
>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>> and again to be successful, the full lesion set, arrested heart,
>>>>>>> etc., with what I believe to be the next best energy source  
>>>>>>> besides
>>>>>>> a knife, namely argon cryo.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ed Bender, MD
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 12, 2009, at 07:04AM, "Michael Firstenberg"
>>>>>>> <msfirst at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Glad they are devoting all of that time to trans-catheter  
>>>>>>>> valves -
>>> a
>>>>>>>> technology that is only available at a few centers and probably
>>> will
>>>>>>>> not be available for mainstream applications for years - if  
>>>>>>>> ever. I
>>>>>>>> am probably more likely to get a GM Volt to drive before I  
>>>>>>>> get a
>>>>>>>> transcatheter valve it implant.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What was all of the negative stuff regarding afib about?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -michael
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On May 12, 2009, at 9:29 AM, Edward Bender wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For the first time in my career I am leaving a professional
>>> meeting
>>>>>>>>> early - it was that lame.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ed Bender, MD
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On May 12, 2009, at 7:32 AM, Michael Firstenberg <
>>> msfirst at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> hey, if I can be part of the solution, I want to be part of  
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -m
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On May 11, 2009, at 11:03 PM, Tea Acuff wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Never in the history of the world has there been a  
>>>>>>>>>>> situation so
>>>>>>>>>>> bad that the government can't make it worse."
>>>>>>>>>>> -Unknown
>>>>>>>>>>> fye (for your entertainment)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> tea (testing every assertion)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Forwarded Message ----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: Zhandong Zhou <zzhoumd at pol.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 9:19:41 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [HSF] AATS 2009
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hal, you don't miss anything. I attended the post graduate
>>> course
>>>>>>>>>>> yesterday which was run by U Penn. They devoted a lot of  
>>>>>>>>>>> times
>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> trans-catheter valve and endovascular surgeries. Dr. Acher  
>>>>>>>>>>> gave
>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> impressive presentation about implantable VAD, but it seems
>>> years
>>>>>>>>>>> away from FDA approval. Niv Ad is very negative about the  
>>>>>>>>>>> future
>>>>>>>>>>> of surgical treatment of lone Afib. Not much new stuff.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have been most of presentations today on plenary session  
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> adult cardiac sessions. The first paper is from Ohio state  
>>>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>>> projected shortage of 2000 cardiothoracic surgeon in next 20
>>> years
>>>>>>>>>>> by 2030. Dr. David presented a good long term followup on
>>> patients
>>>>>>>>>>> with valve sparing procedures with Marfan's syndrome. I  
>>>>>>>>>>> have not
>>>>>>>>>>> learned much from other papers.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I was somewhat comfused about the presidential address by  
>>>>>>>>>>> Dr.
>>>>>>>>>>> Spray. The title is "Conundrom of Quality". He was  
>>>>>>>>>>> frustrated
>>>>>>>>>>> about the current reporting system, which I am sort of agree
>>> with.
>>>>>>>>>>> He thought the current reporting systems are fraud. Then, he
>>>>>>>>>>> thought US should have a universal health care system, he  
>>>>>>>>>>> quated
>>>>>>>>>>> data to support his idea (the data come from some sort of
>>>>>>>>>>> reporting system he just condammed with) as US has the least
>>> cost-
>>>>>>>>>>> efficient system. He thought heathcare is not a  
>>>>>>>>>>> priviledge, but
>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> right for everyone. He is skeptical about minimally invasive
>>>>>>>>>>> surgeries. He does not understand why residents not coming  
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> cardiac surgery these days.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I hope to see some better papers tomorrow.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Zhandong Zhou
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: <hgrmd at aol.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: <OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 2:39 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [HSF] AATS 2009
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry to hear, Zhandong, but it makes me feel less badly  
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>> missing it. So, what is something new that you've learned?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hal
>>>>>>>>>>>> ------Original Message------
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Zhandong Zhou
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sender: openheart-l-bounces at lists.hsforum.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> ReplyTo: OpenHeart-L at lists.hsforum.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: May 11, 2009 2:27 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [HSF] AATS 2009
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The meeting is disappointing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Zhandong Zhou
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Prasanna Simha M
>>>> _______________________________________________
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